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Old 4th September 2010, 21:18   #1
Scotrail84
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Default Carlisle Old Railway

Did Carlisle used to have a loop around the station as i noticed something on google earth that looks like an old railway and bridges over the river to the west of the main station.

Any info is appreciated many thanks.
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Old 4th September 2010, 21:22   #2
CarterUSM
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Originally Posted by Scotrail84 View Post
Did Carlisle used to have a loop around the station as i noticed something on google earth that looks like an old railway and bridges over the river to the west of the main station.

Any info is appreciated many thanks.


I think it did, someone on here mentioned it before.
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Old 4th September 2010, 21:30   #3
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That was the old freight avoiding line, that diverged from Bog Junction to the south of Citadel station, and ran along the opposite side of the River Caldew that lies to the west of the station. It rejoined the current WCML north of the station adjacent to the castle, and Viaduct goods yard was located between it and the Caldew midway slightly north west of Citadel station. The line was closed in 1986 when runaway container vehicles from a Freightliner train demolished the bridge over the River Caldew at the south end, at Rome Street Junction (opposite Currock depot).
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Old 4th September 2010, 21:36   #4
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That was the old freight avoiding line, that diverged from Bog Junction to the south of Citadel station, and ran along the opposite side of the River Caldew that lies to the west of the station. It rejoined the current WCML north of the station adjacent to the castle, and Viaduct goods yard was located between it and the Caldew midway slightly north west of Citadel station. The line was closed in 1986 when runaway container vehicles from a Freightliner train demolished the bridge over the River Caldew at the south end, at Rome Street Junction (opposite Currock depot).
Ok thanks for that info interesting to know cheers mate.
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Old 6th September 2010, 14:27   #5
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The avoider could be seen from the north end of the station, especially platform 8 that stretches out beyond the overbridge at that end. Back in the 70s if you positioned yourself here you could see everything passing through Carlisle apart from the Newcastle and West Cumbria dmus and the daily iron ore train from the north east to Workington. Many an hour spent there in my youth watching a pretty constant stream of 25s and 40s dawdling along with loose coupled freights plus 08s on trip workings.

During the Penmansheil blockage there was even a passenger service along here. Although the through daytime services were pretty much curtailed the then heavy overnight service continued to run being diverted from Newcastle via Carlisle and on to Scotland. On top of the existing heavy overnight WCML services this proved too much for capcity through the station and at least one sleeper service went round the avoider, stopping for a crew change around Bog Junc/Rome St Junc.
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Old 6th September 2010, 19:39   #6
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This is my current pet subject as I've been researching the area for a while now. I hope the follwing doesn't bore anyone

The Goods avoiding line was the remnants of a once huge network of Lines throughout Carlisle. There was another goods line that left at Rome Street Jn giving access to trains to The Waverley route and the Silloth line which was closed in 1969. Part of the triangle had shut the previous year but was reinstated when the Lines around Carlisle where being resignalled and electrified in 1973/1974.

The Goods line was signalled with 3 aspect signals controlled from Carlisle PSB with permissive working available for freight trains. There was a connection to Metal Box company and Dentonholme goods yard on the branch.

The aforementioned accident happened in the early hours of 1st May 1984. A freightliner approaching Carlisle had problems with the brakes dragging and they where isolated. The coupling snatched upon restarting and the rear portion of the train ran out of control.

The front portion made it safely into Carlisle but the signalman realised he had a train running away and routed the train on the goods line where it derailed on the Caldew Bridge , destroying the southern part of it. I understand the payload was harmful to life in the Caldew.

I belive there was a passenger train in the station at the time and the consequences of a train derailing at high speed where unimaginable.

The signalman passed away not long after the accident. Somewhere on the station there is a plaque dedicated to his memory.

the southern part remained until the mid 90s to serve the metal box sidings but the rest was deemed beyond repair and the overhead wires cut back to Upperby. The bridge in that area have since been demolished. some of the signalling at Carlisle was later upgraded to help cope with the reduced capacity.

There was talk of re-opening a couple of years ago but this appears to have fallen by the wayside for the time being. Network Rail don't own the trackbed as far as I'm aware.
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Old 7th September 2010, 11:39   #7
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The Goods avoiding line was the remnants of a once huge network of Lines throughout Carlisle. There was another goods line that left at Rome Street Jn giving access to trains to The Waverley route and the Silloth line which was closed in 1969. Part of the triangle had shut the previous year but was reinstated when the Lines around Carlisle where being resignalled and electrified in 1973/1974.
Which piece of line do you mean was reinstated? I can't think what that would be. I remember the Rome St to Canal Yard line - often stuck at the level crossing on Dalston Road when I was very young. Very little of the North British lines now visible though the bridge over the River Eden is still there and the link into 14MU.

If you want to dig out any further information on the area let me know and I'll see what I can can trawl up from the back of my mind!
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Old 7th September 2010, 17:44   #8
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The bit about the derailment rang a bell, I was reading this the other day.
http://disused-rlys.fotopic.net/c1424655.html
It really made a mess out the Bridge didnt it?
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Old 7th September 2010, 18:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotrail84 View Post
Did Carlisle used to have a loop around the station as i noticed something on google earth that looks like an old railway and bridges over the river to the west of the main station.

Any info is appreciated many thanks.
You may find this useful
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Old 7th September 2010, 20:29   #10
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Which piece of line do you mean was reinstated? I can't think what that would be. I remember the Rome St to Canal Yard line - often stuck at the level crossing on Dalston Road when I was very young. Very little of the North British lines now visible though the bridge over the River Eden is still there and the link into 14MU.

If you want to dig out any further information on the area let me know and I'll see what I can can trawl up from the back of my mind!
The bit which closed and then reopened was Between Forks jn and Bog Jn to allow trains from the south to reach the M&C lines without going through Carlisle station. This still survives today. If you have any pictures of the area from resignalling and electrification to present they would be of use in my project.
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Old 7th September 2010, 20:48   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Galbraith View Post
The bit about the derailment rang a bell, I was reading this the other day.
http://disused-rlys.fotopic.net/c1424655.html
It really made a mess out the Bridge didnt it?
It did indeed ruin the bridge somewhat: Seeing those photos is interesting: I've had a poke around some parts of the alignment myself, but I'm amazed to see the catenary post still remaining on the bridge at the Currock end! Took a good "before and after picture" a couple of years ago near Rome Street Junction in comparison to a shot from the 60s in a book in my possession: It's strange to imagine WCML electrics on heavy freights passing round the station by that route nowadays.
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Old 9th September 2010, 14:46   #12
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The heavy WCML electric freigths such as freightliners and car trains tended to stick to running through the station though more wagonload type electric hauled trains did go round the avoider. In those days there was very little coal traffic around Carlisle unlike now.

I think part of the old alignment is now a cycleway from what I saw a couple of weeks ago - must be between Victoria viaduct, to the west of the station, and where the avoider and WCML come back together by the castle.
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Old 9th September 2010, 17:42   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprinterguy View Post
It did indeed ruin the bridge somewhat: Seeing those photos is interesting: I've had a poke around some parts of the alignment myself, but I'm amazed to see the catenary post still remaining on the bridge at the Currock end! Took a good "before and after picture" a couple of years ago near Rome Street Junction in comparison to a shot from the 60s in a book in my possession: It's strange to imagine WCML electrics on heavy freights passing round the station by that route nowadays.
You know, I completely missed that.
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Old 9th September 2010, 20:51   #14
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Looks like a very good idea for rebuilding. Why did they ever close it and what is in the way of reopening it?
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Old 10th September 2010, 00:27   #15
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Looks like a very good idea for rebuilding. Why did they ever close it and what is in the way of reopening it?
I'm guessing the cost of repairing the bridge was why it was closed. Enough capacity probably existed through Carlisle Citadel - remember the S&C coal trains weren't running in 1984 (and the line itself was in fact still in danger of closure).
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