[MattE2010]

Just read in the current RAIL that there are plans for an overnight train taking 5h30 apx end-to-end from Manchester and Birmingham to Lille and Paris, routed via the WCML, NLL & HS1/the Channel tunnel. I'll get more info when I can. Initial thoughts?

[MCR247]

Yay, another NightStar type project, as last time it worked so well

[MattE2010]

Originally Posted by MCR247

Yay, another NightStar type project, as last time it worked so well

Do you mind me asking what that is (I've never heard of it!!!).
Just remembered that it is designed to compete with airlines.

[ainsworth74]

Half decent page on Nightstar here

[jamesontheroad]

Originally Posted by MCR247

Yay, another NightStar type project, as last time it worked so well

It didn't work then because the nascent low-cost airline industry killed the idea of expensive overnight travel to Europe (and because the rolling stock was over-designed and over-weight). Now, more than a decade later, people are well aware of the cost/benefit sacrifices you make to fly to Europe. Just because Nightstar didn't work doesn't mean a similar proposition couldn't work now. The environmental appeal of train over plane has much greater traction now than it did in the early nineties.

Plus we've all had fifteen years to get thoroughly exhausted of Ryanair's tactics for sucking money out of our wallets for a supposedly low cost flight

[90019]

Nightstar was certainly the first thing that came to mind when I read the title.

I'm interested to know if there really is anything behind this, and if it actually does happen, I'd certainly be interested to see how it goes and if it would get extended any further beyond Paris.

[Nightrider]

Originally Posted by jamesontheroad

It didn't work then because the nascent low-cost airline industry killed the idea of expensive overnight travel to Europe (and because the rolling stock was over-designed and over-weight). Now, more than a decade later, people are well aware of the cost/benefit sacrifices you make to fly to Europe. Just because Nightstar didn't work doesn't mean a similar proposition couldn't work now. The environmental appeal of train over plane has much greater traction now than it did in the early nineties.

Plus we've all had fifteen years to get thoroughly exhausted of Ryanair's tactics for sucking money out of our wallets for a supposedly low cost flight

Interesting post J, taking Ryanair's use of back of beyond airports, just as well they don,t run an overnight train from Manchester to Paris, Ryanair would ask you to join the train at Skipton.

[EM2]

And what about all the passport checks, baggage security checks etc. that will be needed?

[ivanhoe]

Few business people or tourists would use such a service to be viable. Unless it was priced at low cost airline prices, then it is a dead duck. I would like to be proved wrong and therefore a three month trial would be useful.

[PhilipW]

"Planned service". Hmm

I think this may be rather stretching the definition of the word "planned" !

[stut]

I think the power of the sleeper train is in getting to locations that aren't well served by air. Hence the popularity of the Eurostar ski train - even overnight in a seated carriage. Imagine this being a sleeper...

[Kingfisher200262]

Originally Posted by ivanhoe

Few business people or tourists would use such a service to be viable. Unless it was priced at low cost airline prices, then it is a dead duck. I would like to be proved wrong and therefore a three month trial would be useful.

Investment in new rolling stock (new sleeping cars, designed to Channel Tunnel standards) would, unfortunately dictate that a long term concession would be required for this to work.

The new rolling stock must be FAR simpler than the Night Stock coaches were, to reduce weight and cost.

Probably a non-starter, which is a shame, because I quite like the idea of going to bed in Manchester and waking up in Paris.

[MCR247]

Also what loading gauge would they be built to?

[43167]

Originally Posted by MattE2010

Do you mind me asking what that is (I've never heard of it!!!).
Just remembered that it is designed to compete with airlines.

Its what was planned for when the tunnel opened. Overnight services from Plymouth/Swansea and London/Manchester (maybe Glasgow but cant remember)

Some of the stock was built & tested but ended up stored at Kineton for years until all completed vehicles were sold to Canada.

The trains would have been hauled by dedicated Class 37's (37601-612), with a generator van in between which were converted from 5 Mk3 sleepers.

Class 92's would have taken the trains under the sea, Eurostar owned 7 92's. The locos did see use with Eurostar with The 37's covering thunderbird duties until they were sold to DRS. While the 92's were used in the general RFD/EWS pool until the EPS 92's were stored.

[MattE2010]

Originally Posted by 43167

Its what was planned for when the tunnel opened. Overnight services from Plymouth/Swansea and London/Manchester (maybe Glasgow but cant remember)

Some of the stock was built & tested but ended up stored at Kineton for years until all completed vehicles were sold to Canada.

.

So they built all the coaches, then never started the service, then sold them to the Canadians?

I think this could work, but they need to sell it as a good-quality service, I don't think this should be cheap and nasty (like Ryanair). We need top-quality First Class, comfy coaches etc etc. 5h30 isn't bad end-to-end, but the overhanging issue is about passport checks and customs etc. Suppose this could run exclusively from the old Mayfield Terminus ?