24-Hour Glasgow-Edinburgh Service Rejected

MattE2010 · 24th October 2010, 10:42

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Al...ted.6596163.jp

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the TOC predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.
It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

However, Network Rail say such a service would not attract the minimum 31-35 passengers per train required to be viable.

Nightrider · 24th October 2010, 11:56

I can remember a so called Edinburgh "paper train" arriving at Glasgow Queen St at 4.30am every morning back in the good old days of BR.
Although it was primarily there to carry newspapers it did also carry passengers.
Looking back it was probably the last of what was left of the GLQ goods yard work.
Have yet to see a photograph of that side of GLQ pre it being turned into a giant car-park.

Invincibles · 24th October 2010, 12:14

It would be OK if you could be certain of which Glasgow station it was going to use, at the Edinburgh end any of the routes between the cities would work.

Were there to be stations at the airports then I suppose there would be even more of a case for a 24 hour service like Manchester enjoys with Manchester Airport. But TPE and whoever else do seem to try their best to spread the night trains further and further apart.

me123 · 24th October 2010, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattE2010

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Al...ted.6596163.jp

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the TOC predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.
It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

However, Network Rail say such a service would not attract the minimum 31-35 passengers per train required to be viable.

It's a shame. Perhaps a 24 hour service would be a bit much (except maybe over the festival period), but a later last train and earlier first train would certainly be popular. IIRC, the last train leaves at 23:30, so a midnight and 1am departure would be good. (I know there's a later one from Central via Shotts on Friday nights, but most people probably wouldn't think twice about it). As would a train leaving earlier than the current 6am departure (maybe even just 5:30am), and I'm glad that that's going to be considered.

One of the comments on there has made a fair point about the intermediate stations also getting a service. Again, it would really help the case to include these stations. They are well used, and there's no doubt that they would be through the night as well.

tbtc · 24th October 2010, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by me123

One of the comments on there has made a fair point about the intermediate stations also getting a service. Again, it would really help the case to include these stations. They are well used, and there's no doubt that they would be through the night as well.

I guess the problem there is that Scotrail couldn't guarantee the intermediate route between Edinburgh Park and Queen Street (e.g. engineering may mean having to use the Bathgate line), so it'd be hard to guarantee going via Falkirk etc. The Sheffield - Manchester Airport overnight service may take various routes, same with the Leeds ones.

This would be a good idea, even if only extending the last couple of services to run an hour later and see how that goes. If a 00.30 service is popular then continue to 01.30 etc etc. There's no need to go for a full 24hr, they can build up to it. Then again, Citylink run one, so there's proof of some demand for public transport.

rail-britain · 24th October 2010, 15:12

This was discussed a few months ago and it was quite clear that Network Rail were never going to agree to this, so that they could carry out overnight work on this route, as it is the only time they get access (typically 01:00 to 04:00 on week nights)

Back to our old suggestion; why not run a mixed-route service?
For example :
01:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High
02:00 Glasgow QS LL - Edinburgh via Bathgate
03:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston
04:00 Glasgow Central - Edinburgh via Shotts
05:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High

I know Glasgow Central closes for a short while overnight, hence why I put a 04:00 departure, as it usually reopens at about that time

It really is time for the railway to get into the 21st Century; 24 hour transport, 7 days a week
Next to sort out are Sunday services!

MattE2010 · 24th October 2010, 15:17

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

ajax103 · 24th October 2010, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattE2010

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

The proposed services would indeed have run non-stop between Edinburgh and Glasgow:

All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the track operator predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities.

It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am.

MattE2010 · 24th October 2010, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajax103

The proposed services would indeed have run non-stop between Edinburgh and Glasgow:

[I]... Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the track operator predicting soaring passenger numbers ...

What? Do they mean TOC?

rail-britain · 24th October 2010, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattE2010

Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

Yes, most of these stations close at night, but for overnight services you have to then assume the station opening hours change

Otherwise people wouldn't be able to use them...
"Hoi, I want on the 03:00 service to Edinburgh"
"Sorry, this station is closed, and when you get to Edinburgh it will be closed too"

It was assumed the overnight services would serve Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, and Falkirk High

MattE2010 · 24th October 2010, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rail-britain

Yes, most of these stations close at night, but for overnight services you have to then assume the station opening hours change

Otherwise people wouldn't be able to use them...
"Hoi, I want on the 03:00 service to Edinburgh"
"Sorry, this station is closed, and when you get to Edinburgh it will be closed too"

It was assumed the overnight services would serve Haymarket, Linlithgow, Polmont, and Falkirk High

But would they really keep extra staff on for one or two hours just to let say 20 people get on a train to Edinburgh? And I think you will find it impossible that Waverley closes down overnight: there's the Sleepers there, and a massive road through the middle of it.

Were they really proposed to stop en-route?

90019 · 24th October 2010, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattE2010

And I think you will find it impossible that Waverley closes down overnight: there's the Sleepers there, and a massive road through the middle of it.

It closes at 12:45 every night and opens at 4am (6am on sundays). The sleepers have left when it shuts, and arrive after it opens.

What massive road?

CarterUSM · 24th October 2010, 16:22

The late trains are bad enough on a friday night, with one or two exceptions, with steamers, smokers, and those folk who think its funny to ask for a half to X. Late trains? No thanks.

xtradj · 24th October 2010, 16:23

Clearly not a service needed. Is there enough demand for an extra late train or early train?

I suppose alot of passengers at times wish the service they used went slighly earlier or later, but usually if you add a late train or earlier train, numbers dont increase, they just spread out, and therefore costs increase

i think TPE have got it good though with the Man Airport - Pic - Hud - Leeds - York late night trains. Not only does it allow passengers to travel to and from the airport, but you are looking at 4 University cities, whereby students will make the passenger numbers viable on nights out between the Universities. I should know this as i studied in Leeds until 2007.

Liverpool only has one late night service to Man Airport, so on that basis i think it is safe to assume the late night services TPE offer do cater for students, so they have it luckier than most late night routes would have for passenger numbers

Zoe · 24th October 2010, 16:33

In the Netherlands they run hourly services throughout the night between most of the major cities.

24th October 2010, 10:42	#1
MattE2010 The cry was No Surrender Established Member Join Date: 16 May 2010 Location: North Posts: 9,642	24-Hour Glasgow-Edinburgh Service Rejected http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Al...ted.6596163.jp All-night trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow have been rejected by Network Rail despite the TOC predicting soaring passenger numbers in the two cities. It looked at the feasibility of non-stop hourly services between midnight and 6am. However, Network Rail say such a service would not attract the minimum 31-35 passengers per train required to be viable. Last edited by MattE2010; 24th October 2010 at 12:01.

24th October 2010, 11:56	#2
Nightrider Member Join Date: 21 Aug 2010 Posts: 227	I can remember a so called Edinburgh "paper train" arriving at Glasgow Queen St at 4.30am every morning back in the good old days of BR. Although it was primarily there to carry newspapers it did also carry passengers. Looking back it was probably the last of what was left of the GLQ goods yard work. Have yet to see a photograph of that side of GLQ pre it being turned into a giant car-park.

24th October 2010, 12:14	#3
Invincibles Member Join Date: 12 Jul 2009 Location: Suzhou, Jiangsu, China Posts: 495	It would be OK if you could be certain of which Glasgow station it was going to use, at the Edinburgh end any of the routes between the cities would work. Were there to be stations at the airports then I suppose there would be even more of a case for a 24 hour service like Manchester enjoys with Manchester Airport. But TPE and whoever else do seem to try their best to spread the night trains further and further apart.

24th October 2010, 15:12	#6
rail-britain On Moderation Join Date: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 4,105	This was discussed a few months ago and it was quite clear that Network Rail were never going to agree to this, so that they could carry out overnight work on this route, as it is the only time they get access (typically 01:00 to 04:00 on week nights) Back to our old suggestion; why not run a mixed-route service? For example : 01:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High 02:00 Glasgow QS LL - Edinburgh via Bathgate 03:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston 04:00 Glasgow Central - Edinburgh via Shotts 05:00 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh via Falkirk High I know Glasgow Central closes for a short while overnight, hence why I put a 04:00 departure, as it usually reopens at about that time It really is time for the railway to get into the 21st Century; 24 hour transport, 7 days a week Next to sort out are Sunday services!

24th October 2010, 15:17	#7
MattE2010 The cry was No Surrender Established Member Join Date: 16 May 2010 Location: North Posts: 9,642	Doesn't GLQ close at night (well the LL at least)? I take it all the night trains would run non-stop (Haymarket etc would be closed for the night)?

24th October 2010, 16:22	#13
CarterUSM Established Member Join Date: 4 Jan 2010 Location: North Britain Posts: 2,496	The late trains are bad enough on a friday night, with one or two exceptions, with steamers, smokers, and those folk who think its funny to ask for a half to X. Late trains? No thanks.

24th October 2010, 16:23	#14
xtradj Member Join Date: 24 Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 197	Clearly not a service needed. Is there enough demand for an extra late train or early train? I suppose alot of passengers at times wish the service they used went slighly earlier or later, but usually if you add a late train or earlier train, numbers dont increase, they just spread out, and therefore costs increase i think TPE have got it good though with the Man Airport - Pic - Hud - Leeds - York late night trains. Not only does it allow passengers to travel to and from the airport, but you are looking at 4 University cities, whereby students will make the passenger numbers viable on nights out between the Universities. I should know this as i studied in Leeds until 2007. Liverpool only has one late night service to Man Airport, so on that basis i think it is safe to assume the late night services TPE offer do cater for students, so they have it luckier than most late night routes would have for passenger numbers

24th October 2010, 16:33	#15
Zoe Established Member Join Date: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 5,669	In the Netherlands they run hourly services throughout the night between most of the major cities.