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Old 20th January 2011, 09:31   #1
Butts
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Default British Transport Police

Do the above have "powers of arrest" anywhere in the UK as they are a National Police Force?

For example if a BTP officer was travelling on a train between Carlisle and Edinburgh could he arrest people either side of the border for offences committed on the train.

Just curious as the legal systems are different - are the "train laws" as it were the same?
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:56   #2
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He has powers anywhere on the rail network, most (not all) light rail networks, buildings and any property connected/owned by the rail industry. Does not have powers in Northern Ireland.

On the railways has the powers of a normal officer, off the railways can pursue someone and arrest for a crime he witnesses off the network or to save a life. He can also act as a normal officer when acting on the request of a normal police officer (e.g one asks for help catching someone, dealing with an incident) or in larger numbers strategically assist en masse the request of a chief constable (e.g. a big event where they need extra officers drafted in from other forces).
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Old 20th January 2011, 10:15   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
He has powers anywhere on the rail network, most (not all) light rail networks, buildings and any property connected/owned by the rail industry. Does not have powers in Northern Ireland.

On the railways has the powers of a normal officer, off the railways can pursue someone and arrest for a crime he witnesses off the network or to save a life. He can also act as a normal officer when acting on the request of a normal police officer (e.g one asks for help catching someone, dealing with an incident) or in larger numbers strategically assist en masse the request of a chief constable (e.g. a big event where they need extra officers drafted in from other forces).
Very interesting....

From what you say I take it that a "normal officer" has the same powers as a BTP on a train or Railway premises as described.

What i was trying to establish was as I understand it officers from an English Police Force have no powers of arrest in Scotland and vice versa where the BTP officer has?

Also was the BTP established before the "division of Ireland" and did they once have a presence on the Emerald Isle

Thanks
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Old 20th January 2011, 10:46   #4
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Pretty sure English police officers can give chase across the border into Scotland and carry out an arrest. BTP have legally defined powers outside their jurisdiction- the wikipedia article is well referenced as to what they are.

Edit: Cross-border power for "territorial" police constables
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Old 20th January 2011, 10:50   #5
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I'm fairly certain that a police constable, being a servant of the crown and with a primary duty of keeping the monarch's peace, has the power of arrest in any part of the UK.

I believe that the BTP may have no jurisdiction in NI may be down to the different legislation covering transport matters. An individual officer in NI would still be under a duty to take action if they saw a crime being committed, as primarily they are a police constable.

Not 100% sure mind you, and no doubt someone will be along with links to any relevant info!
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Old 20th January 2011, 11:45   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butts View Post
Do the above have "powers of arrest" anywhere in the UK as they are a National Police Force?

For example if a BTP officer was travelling on a train between Carlisle and Edinburgh could he arrest people either side of the border for offences committed on the train.

Just curious as the legal systems are different - are the "train laws" as it were the same?
It is an urban myth that officers cannot arrest outwith their own area, it is all about where the offence took place
If the offence took place in Carlisle and was arrested in Edinburgh, the matter is reported to the court in Carlisle; if an arrestable offence then would be returned to Carlisle
If an offender boards at Carlisle (northbound with next stop Edinburgh), then the offence will be referred to the court in that area
If an offender boards at Edinburgh (southbound next stop Carlisle), then the offence will be referred to the court in that area
If the offence takes place between Carlisle and Lancaster, such that the offender is removed at Lancaster, then the offence will be referred to the court in that area

The BTP officer will normally attend court
However, if there is no BTP officer then a local officer may attend court instead

I once had BTP officers attend at Dunbar, along with two local Scottish CID officers
They removed five passengers, and the matter was referred to the local court, the BTP officers did not attend court but were cited as witnesses
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Old 20th January 2011, 12:29   #7
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Butts,

I hope the link below helps. It goes into the ‘extended jurisdiction’ and ‘mutual aid’ arrangements. It is a myth that Civil Plod are trespassing and cannot enter railway premises without a Warrant or invitation. It is also a myth that the Keystones cannot use their powers outside of the railways. It is just that they are not expected to do it routinely, and the Local Chief Constable has to be advised. You will see that the MDP are treated like the BTP but the CNC are treated slightly differently. Anyhow, I hope the ACPO link is of help.

G.

http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/
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Old 20th January 2011, 18:13   #8
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BTP being the National police force of Britain cover the full network of the British Railways Network.

Scots officers can be sworn under Scots law and when required to work in England sworn under English Law and vice versa.

Btp would be contacted in the first instance if there was an incident at the railway station/problem onboard a train,however due to limited numbers and the fact that they cover such a large area(Scotland) more often that not the civilan police would attend..................
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Old 20th January 2011, 18:29   #9
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One interesting point I read with regards to BTP and jurisdiction was that English or Welsh BTP Special Constables (volunteer police officers with all the police powers) had jurisdiction throughout England & Wales, whereas paid police officers had the restrictions discussed above.
I believe it arose from a change in the law intended to equalise the disparity between regular and special constables for the geographic police forces, as regulars had jurisdiction throughout England & Wales but specials only had it in their force and surrounding areas. However the new law didn't make any exceptions for BTP Special Constables.
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Old 20th January 2011, 22:48   #10
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Along with powers of arrest, it would seem they are soon to get powers to shoot!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...315901192?f=vg

Wo betide any trainspotter that gets in thier way
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Old 21st January 2011, 00:09   #11
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There was a police telly programme on a couple of years ago - a couple of BTP plod from Leeds ended up being called to deal with a fight at a nightclub as the local force were too busy. Definately transferable!
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Old 21st January 2011, 00:39   #12
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Default Powers of Jurisdiction.

These things are always changing however I used to be a Special Constable with Lothian & Borders. Unlike my regular colleagues who had Police Powers throughout Scotland only. I only had powers whilst on duty and in uniform in my own force area & contiguous areas which as two of them were in England (Northumbria & Cumbria Constabularies) also ipso facto gave me powers to pursue a case throughout England & Wales. Regular officers have always had the right to pursue an actual suspected offender across force & national borders which is subtly different from pursuing a case. The Law follows the crime or criminal.

As I said this was a long time ago in my case and jurisdictions are becoming more standardised throughout the UK. Criminals don't respect borders (in fact they thrive on them). Why should the Law be inconvenienced by them?
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Old 21st January 2011, 14:15   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post
Along with powers of arrest, it would seem they are soon to get powers to shoot!

Wo betide any trainspotter that gets in thier way
Oh great!.

G
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Old 23rd January 2011, 00:31   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
There was a police telly programme on a couple of years ago - a couple of BTP plod from Leeds ended up being called to deal with a fight at a nightclub as the local force were too busy. Definately transferable!
That programme was recently shown again during the early hours. Apparently they patrol that area as well as the station on a weekend.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 01:06   #15
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I remember about 20 years ago a couple of sproats were trying to nick a car at about 6.00am from a car park near to where I was working not far from Cardiff Central Station. A couple of transport police in an unmarked car, just coming off the night shift, saw them acting suspiciously and caught them red-handed!
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