booked train only

dcd · 19th March 2011, 15:24

How does the ticket inspector know which is the booked train. I have an advance Cardiff Bay to Romsey ticket validity bookedtrainonly but the journey needs 3 trains Cardiff Bay-Cardiff Queen Street,Cardiff Queen Street-Cardiff Central and Cardiff Central - Romsey. The only information about trains on the coupons is the seat reservation from Cardiff Central-Romsey. Therefore presume I could use any trains for the other 2 legs.

Zoe · 19th March 2011, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

How does the ticket inspector know which is the booked train. I have an advance Cardiff Bay to Romsey ticket validity bookedtrainonly but the journey needs 3 trains Cardiff Bay-Cardiff Queen Street,Cardiff Queen Street-Cardiff Central and Cardiff Central - Romsey. The only information about trains on the coupons is the seat reservation from Cardiff Central-Romsey. Therefore presume I could use any trains for the other 2 legs.

Not this again. If you read other threads and take a literal interpretation of the terms and conditions of advance fares the onus is on you to remember or note down all the times of trains you are told. By this interpretation these are your booked trains and you must travel on them. If your ticket says &Connections you may travel on any connection trains though.

**yorkie** · 19th March 2011, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

How does the ticket inspector know which is the booked train.

By looking at the reservation coupon(s).

Most people would agree that if a train is "booked", you get a reservation coupon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

I have an advance Cardiff Bay to Romsey ticket validity bookedtrainonly but the journey needs 3 trains Cardiff Bay-Cardiff Queen Street,Cardiff Queen Street-Cardiff Central and Cardiff Central - Romsey. The only information about trains on the coupons is the seat reservation from Cardiff Central-Romsey. Therefore presume I could use any trains for the other 2 legs.

That would be a logical interpretation, in my opinion, although some people disagree. There have been numerous debates on this issue on the forum, a search should reveal them.

The law does state that where the rules are unclear, the interpretation that is most favourable to the customer should prevail.

The old airline-style tickets used to say "Suggested service" and give details of the trains that were 'suggested', the new-style tickets do not mention these services. I believe the word 'suggested' is self-explanatory. It may be possible to get the old style tickets from cetrain travel agents, I was surprised to see some examples used by Sunderland supporters just a couple of weeks ago (they bought Durham-London group advance tickets).

dcd · 19th March 2011, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoe

Not this again. If you read other threads and take a literal interpretation of the terms and conditions of advance fares the onus is on you to remember or note down all the times of trains you are told. By this interpretation these are your booked trains and you must travel on them. If your ticket says &Connections you may travel on any connection trains though.

Sorry, I did do a search but obviously not well enough as I did not find anything. I do intend travelling on the booked train but am not sure how a ticket inspector would know that I am on the correct train.

**yorkie** · 19th March 2011, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

Sorry, I did do a search but obviously not well enough as I did not find anything. I do intend travelling on the booked train but am not sure how a ticket inspector would know that I am on the correct train.

I believe that most people would say it is a reasonable argument that if there is no coupon for that train, the train is not a "booked" train, and equally that if a train is not "reservable" then it is not "bookable".

The old-style tickets, using the term "suggested service" was, I believe, clear.

Zoe · 19th March 2011, 16:19

The issue is though that the terms and conditions of the ticket so you must only travel on your booked train. If you don't believe that the trains you are told at the ticket office are your booked trains then you have known way of getting to the station where your first reservation is from.

hairyhandedfool · 19th March 2011, 16:20

The short answer is.....

If you do not have a reservation coupon for a particular part of the journey and you travel on a non-reservable service for that particular part of the journey, the guard would never know if it was the train you agreed to use.

I think everyone here agrees with that much.

RPI · 19th March 2011, 21:01

your ticket will also say something like "valid only with reservations".

dcd · 20th March 2011, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPI

your ticket will also say something like "valid only with reservations".

It does indeed say VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S) but there are no reservations for the first two legs of the journey just for the last leg.

222007 · 20th March 2011, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

It does indeed say VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S) but there are no reservations for the first two legs of the journey just for the last leg.

Then dont worry so long as your on the train that you do have reservations for. In my area its not uncommon for people to travel on advanced tickets but have no reservation reservations the reason for this is because our local service is not reservable where as the express is thats henerally how we no which train.

dzug2 · 20th March 2011, 10:45

The guard, if he were so minded, could work out from the reserved leg of the journey what the non-reserved times must be.

John @ home · 20th March 2011, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzug2

The guard, if he were so minded, could work out from the reserved leg of the journey what the non-reserved times must be.

Not always. For example, if I book a journey from Leeds to St Pancras to arrive at 1334 on a weekday, I can be expected to leave Leeds at three different times by entering "via Barnsley", "via Darton" or "via Rotherham Central". None of these three options involve any reservable train other than the 1334 arrival and the departure time from Leeds can not be computed from what is printed on the ticket.

**yorkie** · 20th March 2011, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd

It does indeed say VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S) but there are no reservations for the first two legs of the journey just for the last leg.

There are no reservations because they are not reservable. As I said, most people would agree that means not bookable. The old tickets said "suggested service", the new ones just don't say anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzug2

The guard, if he were so minded, could work out from the reserved leg of the journey what the non-reserved times must be.

No, they can't be sure of the non-reserved times.
(Except on some rural services with few trains, perhaps)

But even if they could, I believe that the tickets are only restricted on the reservable/bookable leg anyway. If you believe it is unclear, then this law applies:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm
7. - (2) If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail but this rule shall not apply in proceedings brought under regulation 12 [Injunctions to prevent continued use of unfair terms].

RPI · 20th March 2011, 20:13

I have seen a slight change lately in scenarios like this, where a reservation is issued for a train but no reserved seat (on non reservable services) but the train time is clearly printed on it.

Daniel · 20th March 2011, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPI

I have seen a slight change lately in scenarios like this, where a reservation is issued for a train but no reserved seat (on non reservable services) but the train time is clearly printed on it.

As have I, with "Coach X Seat XX"

19th March 2011, 15:24	#1
dcd Member Join Date: 28 Jan 2011 Location: Romsey Posts: 241	booked train only How does the ticket inspector know which is the booked train. I have an advance Cardiff Bay to Romsey ticket validity bookedtrainonly but the journey needs 3 trains Cardiff Bay-Cardiff Queen Street,Cardiff Queen Street-Cardiff Central and Cardiff Central - Romsey. The only information about trains on the coupons is the seat reservation from Cardiff Central-Romsey. Therefore presume I could use any trains for the other 2 legs.

19th March 2011, 16:20	#7
hairyhandedfool TOC employee Established Member Join Date: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 5,188	The short answer is..... If you do not have a reservation coupon for a particular part of the journey and you travel on a non-reservable service for that particular part of the journey, the guard would never know if it was the train you agreed to use. I think everyone here agrees with that much. __________________ These views are my own and not, in any way, those of my employer, though they may choose to agree with them if they wish.

19th March 2011, 16:19	#6
Zoe Established Member Join Date: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 5,669	The issue is though that the terms and conditions of the ticket so you must only travel on your booked train. If you don't believe that the trains you are told at the ticket office are your booked trains then you have known way of getting to the station where your first reservation is from.

19th March 2011, 21:01	#8
RPI Member Join Date: 6 Dec 2010 Posts: 466	your ticket will also say something like "valid only with reservations".

20th March 2011, 10:45	#11
dzug2 Member Join Date: 5 Feb 2011 Posts: 566	The guard, if he were so minded, could work out from the reserved leg of the journey what the non-reserved times must be.

20th March 2011, 20:13	#14
RPI Member Join Date: 6 Dec 2010 Posts: 466	I have seen a slight change lately in scenarios like this, where a reservation is issued for a train but no reserved seat (on non reservable services) but the train time is clearly printed on it.