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Old 3rd June 2011, 19:47   #1
hawaii2468
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Default Help! St Albans to London day travel card

Hello everyone, I travelled to London today from St Albans with a London zone 1-6 travel card. My outbound trip was done by First Capital Connect from St Albans City Station to London St Pancras International. Then I wandered about in London by travelling on the tube for a few times. Coming back, instead of doing the same journey I took the London Midland from London Euston station to St Albans Abbey station via Watford junction. Unfortunately when I was on the train from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey station I was told by the ticket inspetor that my ticket wasn't valid to travel on this route and he charged me a fine. Both St Albans City station and St Ablans Abbey station are in the same town, about a mile away. In my ticket, it printed St Albans* & London Zones 1-6, any permitted routes.

In terms shortest journey, London is so big it's really difficult to work out the shortest route. How about Heathrow Airport or east London to St Albans?

Was the ticket inspector right? Should I pay the fine?

By the way, he was very rude to me and once confiscated my ticket and hid it in his pocket only returned to me after I filled in all my personal information. I wonder do ticket inspetors have such rights to do so?
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Old 3rd June 2011, 19:53   #2
sonic2009
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How much was your fine? Was it a penalty Fare

and how much did you pay for your original ticket?
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:04   #3
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I may be wrong but I think it would have to say st Albans (all stations) or something like that to be valid. Otherwise it woud have to say st Albans abbey rather than just st Albans. Obviously being different companies LM wouldn't get the revenue for a FCC st Albans -London fare.

Pretty sure the ticket inspector can confiscate it as the t&cs of a ticket state it is railway property and must be surrendered on demand.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:05   #4
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Right

St Albans - London Zone 1-6


ODT - OFF-PEAK TCDSTD FCC
00000 - ANY PERMITTED
Non-standard discounts apply
1 Adult @ 15.00 = 15.00
__________
15.00

Standard Class Single

So you then have to find the permitted routes between London and St Albans.

St Albans 1-6 Day Travelcard is more expensive than the St Albans Abbey 1-6 Day Travelcard.

I do believe it is valid and the Penalty Fare was incorrectly charged. If you used it during the peak then perhaps an excess fare was due?

No St Albans Stns group exists.

Where did you get stopped?

The ticket inspector is entitled to retain your ticket as it effectively his (acting on behalf of the train company). A receipt would be given if onward travel is required in the form of a RSP4408/UPFN.

Last edited by First class; 3rd June 2011 at 20:11.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:10   #5
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At the risk of being a pedant, you were not charged a fine as only the courts have the power to do this.

Can you please advise us exactly what ticket you bought (what was printed on it and its price), and also the extra amount you were charged and what documentation or ticket you received to this effect?
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:20   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-driver View Post
I may be wrong but I think it would have to say st Albans (all stations) or something like that to be valid. Otherwise it woud have to say st Albans abbey rather than just st Albans. Obviously being different companies LM wouldn't get the revenue for a FCC st Albans -London fare.

Pretty sure the ticket inspector can confiscate it as the t&cs of a ticket state it is railway property and must be surrendered on demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by First class View Post
So you then have to find the permitted routes between London and St Albans.

St Albans 1-6 Day Travelcard is more expensive than the St Albans Abbey 1-6 Day Travelcard.

I do believe it is valid and the Penalty Fare was incorrectly charged. If you used it during the peak then perhaps an excess fare was due?

No St Albans Stns group exists.

Where did you get stopped?

The ticket inspector is entitled to retain your ticket as it effectively his (acting on behalf of the train company). A receipt would be given if onward travel is required in the form of a RSP4408/UPFN.
There was a discussion not long ago regarding travel from St Albans. At the time, I posted this, and John @ Home posted this. The matter is complicated by the fact that there is no St Albans Stations designation and tickets from City and Abbey stations are separate flows.

The matter is further complicated by the fact that it is a travelcard rather than a point-to-point ticket, and the fact that there is no consensus as to what constitutes a permitted route between a given point and Zone 6.

However it would be helpful if the OP can indicate whether he was given a Penalty Fare or else, and what the reason was stated on the paperwork.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:28   #7
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Thank you all!

Yes, very strangely that I wasn't given any receipt or other forms of documents for my penalty. The ticket inspector didn't charge me at scene, instead he wrote down my personal details on my drive license such as name, address and date of birth. This happened just right after my boarding on the train from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey.

My ticket details are as following:

STD off peak TCDS 13 pounds (as I have a Network rail card and I presented it when purchasing my ticket and the ticket inspector as well)

Between
St Albans* & London Zones 1-6 number: 03546
Route: Any permitted
Disc: MIN

He didn't asked me for any cash at scene, he only told me that it's 5 pound 30 plus administrative fee.

What I care about isn't the charge but truth, and it's also very embrassing as it's full of passengers on the train, they might think I didn't have any ticket.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaii2468 View Post
Thank you all!

Yes, very strangely that I wasn't given any receipt or other forms of documents for my penalty. The ticket inspector didn't charge me at scene, instead he wrote down my personal details on my drive license such as name, address and date of birth. This happened just right after my boarding on the train from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey.

My ticket details are as following:

STD off peak TCDS 13 pounds (as I have a Network rail card and I presented it when purchasing my ticket and the ticket inspector as well)

Between
St Albans* & London Zones 1-6 number: 03546
Route: Any permitted
Disc: MIN

He didn't asked me for any cash at scene, he only told me that it's 5 pound 30 plus administrative fee.

What I care about isn't the charge but truth, and it's also very embrassing as it's full of passengers on the train, they might think I didn't have any ticket.
So you hold


Quote:
ODT - OFF-PEAK TCDSTD FCC
00000 - ANY PERMITTED
Non-standard discounts apply
1 Adult @ 9.90 = 9.90

__________
9.90

Standard Class Single
Minimum Fare: 13.00
5 is aprox the difference between Peak/Off Peak.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:31   #9
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Did he not give you anything?
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:35   #10
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Your ticket doesn't appear to have been valid no as they are both different flows and are not grouped together under one paticular designation such as ST ALBANS STNS. Its a case of two different TOCs operating from each paticular station and both having different fare structures.

I am concerned/confused about what you were charged. Excess Fare? PF? UPFN?

Whatever you were charged, you should have been given a reciept.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:37   #11
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This is a really scammy system - I don't think the average punter would expect a ticket to St Albans would not be valid to St Albans Abbey (if it is invalid, which I can't decide!)

If its going to continue to be two separate flows maybe the ticket needs to be routed (either LM/FCC only), or its time to rename St Albans to St Albans Thameslink.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:38   #12
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East Coast will sell the ticket for 15 via Watford Jn.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:42   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb21 View Post
Did he not give you anything?
nothing at all.

I am very new to this country and only moved to St Albans less than 6 month. I really had no idea what was happening. I was scared, embarrassed, angry......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by First class View Post
So you hold




5 is aprox the difference between Peak/Off Peak.
No, because I travelled both within off peak hours. What he tried to fine wasn't that I travelled in peak hours with off peak ticket but that my ticket was out of London zones 1 - 6. I guess this 5 pounds was the price from London Zone 6 boudry - St Albans Abbey.

It's right! LM is definitely not happy about my travelling on its train as it wont get any revenue from FCC.

Last edited by hawaii2468; 3rd June 2011 at 20:42. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:52   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaii2468 View Post
He didn't asked me for any cash at scene, he only told me that it's 5 pound 30 plus administrative fee.
I think it might have been the fare below:

Boundary Zone 6 - St Albans Abbey
Route Any Permitted
Off-Peak Day Single
5.30

I can't find anything else that costs 5.30. Being below the minimum fare means you don't get railcard discounts.

However I still can't understand what he was trying to do. Maybe an Unpaid Fare Notice? But then I am baffled by the admin fee.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 20:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb21 View Post
I think it might have been the fare below:

Boundary Zone 6 - St Albans Abbey
Route Any Permitted
Off-Peak Day Single
5.30

I can't find anything else that costs 5.30. Being below the minimum fare means you don't get railcard discounts.

However I still can't understand what he was trying to do. Maybe an Unpaid Fare Notice? But then I am baffled by the admin fee.
Well, I have no idea either why he did so to me, especially when someonewas a foreigner. Local friends also told me about this Unpaid fare notice or Penalty Notice, but really he gave me nothing.
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