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Old 22nd June 2011, 08:24   #31
fulshaw
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Sorry - if a member of staff gets told off I do not care. Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. Some people are too used to seeing this from 'the railways' perspective and scurrying off to quote chapter and verse from The Manual as if it was some kind of pseudo- religious tome or the TIS is missing the central point here. By a country mile.

As a customer it is simply not my problem but an internal staff issue. Quoting rules and regs and excess fares is not really the point here - as some posters have grasped this is a customer service issue not a binary piece of left brain logic that states no Railcard = bad customer = customer must be 'punished'/'excessed' or whatever phrase you care to use.

If the customer writes in and explains the situation then it is up to the company to decide if they want to refund any extra money paid based on good customer service principles. They don't have to and we all know that. But it does not mean they can't or they won't.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:10   #32
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What is so hard for you to understand , the guard did you a favour and went against the terms and conditions of your railcard and you are moaning because you want the money back despite the fact YOU were the one that forgot your railcard that is required at all times to validate your ticket for your journey. You are going to write to Customer Services to try and retrieve money that your not entitled to get back. You might be successful, you might not. What would you do if they were to request the money you owe them because you were undercharged? What happens next time you forget your railcard? The guard may have been pulled up for being lenient and might apply the rules rigidly. You won't get as much sympathy from Customer Relations. You will go to watchdog or the daily mail and attempt to get a refund through them. You will never learn to check your railcard is with you before your journey.

It seems like you think the rules don't apply to you that apply to everyone else.

I've realised I've forgotten my railcard in the past and excessed the ticket before travel. End of story. I missed out on saving a few quid. No big winge and moan as I accept that I forgot it and in future be more careful. Do you think a bus driver would give me a free ticket if I forgot my Megarider or System One Bus Saver 7 and tell me to remember it next time. No I would be expected to pay the fare as I didn't have it with me. Therefore if you forget your railcard you have to pay the full fare. Simple. Its what you see people having to do on a daily basis. In some cases they have to pay a penalty fare or a rather nasty twice the full single fare which can be very expensive indeed. You would be moaning then wouldn't you?. However They accept it was there mistake and move on.

If you don't like the terms and conditions maybe you should consider no longer buying one. You don't have to have one but then you'll be winging about the fares being more expensive.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:11   #33
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Sorry but in this case I would advise against writing in. I strongly agree with everything Yorkie has said already (not for the first time).

Clearly the best possible outcome for the customer was the one that arose - an excess to the undiscounted fare. This is against the ticketing guidelines and the guard has used all of the discretion available to him.

Customer relations offices do keep track of people who write in and their refund/goodwill history; they mostly use the same software.

Fulshaw, you don't seem to understand that if the guard gets a flea in his ear about this incident, he'll be unlikely to show the same leniency again. He actually bent the rules for the customer, entirely in the customer's interest.

In summary, I believe the customer/OP was treated very fairly indeed given the circumstances. I would hate to see guards become unwilling to exercise common sense. This would be vastly contrary to the interests of the passenger.

Last edited by AlterEgo; 22nd June 2011 at 09:23.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:18   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
Sorry - if a member of staff gets told off I do not care. Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. Some people are too used to seeing this from 'the railways' perspective and scurrying off to quote chapter and verse from The Manual as if it was some kind of pseudo- religious tome or the TIS is missing the central point here. By a country mile.

As a customer it is simply not my problem but an internal staff issue. Quoting rules and regs and excess fares is not really the point here - as some posters have grasped this is a customer service issue not a binary piece of left brain logic that states no Railcard = bad customer = customer must be 'punished'/'excessed' or whatever phrase you care to use.

If the customer writes in and explains the situation then it is up to the company to decide if they want to refund any extra money paid based on good customer service principles. They don't have to and we all know that. But it does not mean they can't or they won't.
Your problem is you have not read T&C set out on back of your application form you signed to obtain YP railcard.
Your second problem is the misconception that you think you are a customer where as in this instance you are a passenger in the wrong as you failed to produce a valid raildcard with dicounted ticket.
It was your lucky day that you travelled with East Coast as many other TOC's would have deemed your ticket not valid & charged you full single fare for the journey being made.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:38   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 323235 View Post
What is so hard for you to understand , the guard did you a favour and went against the terms and conditions of your railcard and you are moaning because you want the money back despite the fact YOU were the one that forgot your railcard that is required at all times to validate your ticket for your journey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight View Post
Your problem is you have not read T&C set out on back of your application form you signed to obtain YP railcard.
...
It was your lucky day that you travelled with East Coast as many other TOC's would have deemed your ticket not valid & charged you full single fare for the journey being made.
Just to note - Fulshaw is not the OP, ie, not the one who forgot his railcard. The original poster (dstrat) was only asking about the rules!
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:49   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
Sorry - if a member of staff gets told off I do not care. Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. Some people are too used to seeing this from 'the railways' perspective and scurrying off to quote chapter and verse from The Manual as if it was some kind of pseudo- religious tome or the TIS is missing the central point here. By a country mile.

As a customer it is simply not my problem but an internal staff issue. Quoting rules and regs and excess fares is not really the point here - as some posters have grasped this is a customer service issue not a binary piece of left brain logic that states no Railcard = bad customer = customer must be 'punished'/'excessed' or whatever phrase you care to use.
No, but you'll care if a told off member of staff sees you on his train and you hold a discounted ticket but no railcard and thinks 'ooh, last time I showed discretion, I got a b#####king, I'm gonna have to ching this guy the full whack'.

All this 'good customer service/bad customer service' mentioned in this thread is pure waffle. If I forget my passport (a supporting document) on July 25th, do you think BA will let my fly? Will they hell. If I forget my bus pass on Friday night, will the bus company let me travel without buying a new ticket? Will they buggedy!

The onus is on the passenger to bring all the relevant documentation with them. I mean, we're not talking about rocket science here are we?! How hard can it be?!
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:07   #37
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If people bother to post they should actually take some time to read the full thread rather than just jump in. It is not me that forgot my railcard - it is the original poster. Please read in full before slanging accusatory posts around about things I am alleged to have done or not done.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:11   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
Sorry - if a member of staff gets told off I do not care. Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. Some people are too used to seeing this from 'the railways' perspective and scurrying off to quote chapter and verse from The Manual as if it was some kind of pseudo- religious tome or the TIS is missing the central point here. By a country mile.

As a customer it is simply not my problem but an internal staff issue. Quoting rules and regs and excess fares is not really the point here - as some posters have grasped this is a customer service issue not a binary piece of left brain logic that states no Railcard = bad customer = customer must be 'punished'/'excessed' or whatever phrase you care to use.

If the customer writes in and explains the situation then it is up to the company to decide if they want to refund any extra money paid based on good customer service principles. They don't have to and we all know that. But it does not mean they can't or they won't.
The chances of you getting a refund for a ticket that is cheaper than you should have been sold (on the basis of YOU forgetting YOUR railcard) is smaller than the chance of you being sent a bill for the difference of what you paid and what you should have been charged.

The chances of that member of staff giving the same discretion again are reduced each time a letter about it comes in, partly because the company won't like discretion being shown (even if they allow it), but also because the one thing worse than having a complaint against them is having a complaint against them when they did someone a favour.

So in contrast, it IS of concern to you as a passenger/customer, as you would be eroding the discretion (customer service) that you claim to want to see.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:20   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstrat View Post
Hi guys

Just wondering, I bought a ticket from a machine believing I had my railcard on me. By the time the guard had come round on the East Coast service to check tickets and what not, found I never had my railcard.
Top Tip next time you need a ticket see the nice people in Ticket Office as they will ask to see your railcard at time of purchase.
Other posters note they are not being jobsworths just doing their days work correctly, preventing unfortunate incidents like this from happening & saving passenger money as most TOC's go by wording on railcard application form treat as no valid ticket held
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:31   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
If people bother to post they should actually take some time to read the full thread rather than just jump in. It is not me that forgot my railcard - it is the original poster. Please read in full before slanging accusatory posts around about things I am alleged to have done or not done.
If that's aimed at me, can I point out that nowhere did I suggest it was you who had forgotten the railcard. I suggested what may happen if you did in the future. So, before you attempt to criticise somebody for 'not reading postings', perhaps you'd like to get your own house in order?
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:33   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. .
So your not a passenger sorry I mean valued customer you certainly give impression that you are in your post here.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:39   #42
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Quote:
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So your not a passenger sorry I mean valued customer you certainly give impression that you are in your post here.
He is a passenger, but not the OP - who is the person who forgot his railcard. Incidentally, the OP seems to have dealt with the situation quite gracefully, which might explain why the guard was happy to show discretion.

Respect is a two-way thing in every walk of life, I find.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 10:54   #43
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If you didn't have a valid ticket (i.e. no railcard) you weren't a customer - you were trespassing!!

For goodness sake... you were shown leniency and now you want more, despite it being YOUR fault? You didn't lose the railcard, it wasn't stolen, you didn't merely struggle to find it then later discover you did have it all along - you forgot it. YOUR fault.

Man up and accept some responsibility for your own actions.

If you'd been charged full whack, by all means write in and hope the person reading the letter was in a good mood - but can't you see when you're on to a good thing and should shut up?!!
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:02   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulshaw View Post
Sorry - if a member of staff gets told off I do not care. Let me repeat - it is not my problem as a customer. Some people are too used to seeing this from 'the railways' perspective and scurrying off to quote chapter and verse from The Manual as if it was some kind of pseudo- religious tome or the TIS is missing the central point here. By a country mile.

As a customer it is simply not my problem but an internal staff issue. Quoting rules and regs and excess fares is not really the point here - as some posters have grasped this is a customer service issue not a binary piece of left brain logic that states no Railcard = bad customer = customer must be 'punished'/'excessed' or whatever phrase you care to use.

If the customer writes in and explains the situation then it is up to the company to decide if they want to refund any extra money paid based on good customer service principles. They don't have to and we all know that. But it does not mean they can't or they won't.

Let me get straight to the point that i have bolded.Your problem and your responsibilities as a customer(i know you were not the OP) of the railway is to carry with you the correct documentation with you - railcards/photocards - when you purchase a discounted ticket.

Your attitude quite frankly disgusts me over this. You may say Customer service should do this,that or the other and you dont care what happens to the staff but it is good natured staff like was outlined by the OP who keep the goodwill of a lot of people on this forum and passengers of the railway in the plus.. If they all took the right attitude as outlined in the manual then the OP wouldve got a far higher fare given to him.

Again the traveller has a responsibility to ensure they have everything with them when they travel and i can clearly see that the guard was doing him a favour and for that he should be applauded not shot down by someone whos attitude is that the customer can do no wrong and should be refunded moneies he doesnt have a right too
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:05   #45
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Until the railway (and let's hope it never does, bar Eurostar) goes the way of the airlines, with every station having check-in and security, with reserved seating, people will always think that the normal common sense 'rules' don't apply.. just like not bothering to get a ticket if nobody comes to you to sell one (on a non-PF route obviously) and walking out at the other end.

As has been made very clear, even though it should be obvious, you couldn't get away with forgetting tickets, passports and other supporting documentation on planes, or even coaches, ferries, turning up to Wembley for the FA Cup (or the Olympics next year) without your tickets etc.

Treat your ticket and associated railcards like cash. Lose em, you're stuffed.

By all means write in and hope for a gesture of goodwill, but don't expect it or get upset over it.

Last edited by jonmorris0844; 22nd June 2011 at 11:12.
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