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Old 4th August 2013, 10:39   #196
Rhydgaled
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Originally Posted by anthony263 View Post
Arriva were supposed to have had brand double deckers for the Cymru express services earlier this summer although it has gone all quiet
I thought they were supposed to be there last summer.

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Originally Posted by Derlwyn View Post
it's faster than trawscambria was
Is it actually acheivable now or is the extra speed still at the cost of punctuality? Also, the only thing that could really have made it faster was dropping the diversion between Lampeter and Aberaeron, which TrawsCymru would have done anyway (although as it turned out WAG conveniently blammed Arriva when the complaints began).

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coach service to mcarthur glen and cardiff is very comfortable
I've never been on one of their coaches, but I've seen them a few times. I've also seen a coach on the 50 service to Synod Inn and a Pulsar on either the 10 or 20 service. One of the latter occasions I happened to be in a car (on the M4 I think) and overtook it. It appeared to be empty.

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evening service from aberystwyth dropped
It was bad enough before. 5pm is far too early for the last bus to Carmarthen. Similarly, the first bus from Carmarthen (unless they've changed it recently) on a Saturday runs very late in the morning.

The route should be worked from depots at each end with the first through buses from both ends slightly after 6am and the last through bus from each end no earlier than 8pm.

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Things Arriva should consider? The number one for me is better buses, either better vehicles of their own or else some sort of deal to use the trawscymru tempos.
Beyond that, maybe try a second coach route to cardiff/newport via tregaron, lampeter, llandovery, merthyr and the uni of glam at trefforest.
Well, the 10 to Swansea has been canceled and I think I read somewhere that the 20 will be too later this year. It might be interesting to see what Arriva do with the two coaches, though they probably won't stay in Aberystwyth (unless they are planning to use the coaches on the 40 and 50). That would leave Arriva with just three Aberystwyth services: 40, 50 and 585. Personally, I'd like them to shut up shop completely and let WAG tender for the TrawsCymru TC1 and extend the X50 into Aberystwyth, but unless the buses on T9 are really new ones they will need to get the Tempos back off that for TC1.
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Old 4th August 2013, 14:13   #197
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Whilst only one trip each way (at the moment) there is also the 701 (The old Traws Cambria number for Cardiff - Llanduno/Holyhead route) Aberystyth - Cardiff via Lampeter Carmarthen and Swansea service operated Coach Travel Wales. http://www.coachtravelwales.co.uk/
Aberystywyth 0740 2010
Carmarthen 0930 1820
Swansea 1025 1725
Cardiff 1135 1610

Usually has a reasonable load when I have seen it.
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Old 4th August 2013, 22:05   #198
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So now two TrawsCymru routes in Cardiff, both duplicating rail services, and none in Aberystwyth. Is Cardiff Bus' X91 commertial then? If so, how come WAG can subsidise the TrawsCymru there but not between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth?
As has already been pointed out before, the bus company needs to take legal action. Then there's the issue of proportionality.

With your personal hobby horse of the X50/550 extending to Aber, you're talking of an hourly extension over all of the Arriva 50, and a fair part of the 40. An hourly service going over a half hourly commercial service is likely to abstract trade.

With the T9 and X91, you're talking about a 20 min service against the commercial two hourly service. Also, the X91's main trade probably comes from LM and St Athan. The biggest issue with the X91 is the train service - it was this that Cardiff Bus directly stated was the reason for the X91 reducing from hourly to two hourly
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Old 4th August 2013, 23:45   #199
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An hourly service going over a half hourly commercial service is likely to abstract trade.

With the T9 and X91, you're talking about a 20 min service against the commercial two hourly service. Also, the X91's main trade probably comes from LM and St Athan.
A 20min service over a two hourly one is going to abstract even more trade, unless LM (wherever that is) and St. Athan are not served by the T9 in which case where will the latter get it's trade from?
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Old 5th August 2013, 10:47   #200
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A 20min service over a two hourly one is going to abstract even more trade, unless LM (wherever that is) and St. Athan are not served by the T9 in which case where will the latter get it's trade from?
LM is Llantwit Major. Fact is that much of the trade comes from Llantwit Major and St Athan. There is a bit on the road into Cardiff from the outer reaches of Barry. However, the T9 timetable clear states that "This service will only pick up and set down at locations stated on the timetable for passengers travelling to or from Cardiff Airport only." so it won't take any trade from the X91 other than the minimal numbers going to the Airport and won't affect ANY other trade on the X91 or the 96 (Barry to Cardiff). In fact, should Cardiff Bus go to court (and why would they?), then the argument would be made by WG/VGC that they've made more than reasonable provision to avoid affecting the X91.

Now, going back to the X50, if the WG wanted to run a service that went from Cardigan to Synod Inn (all stops) and then ran set down only to Aberystwyth, then they might have a chance. Similarly, running from Aber, they wouldn't be able to carry local trade so first set down after Synod Inn. In that instance, you'd question how many passengers the X50 would carry to Aber?

Now, it is also fair to say that the T9 is nothing more than a political move and will carry few passengers. It's just having bought the airport, then the WG are under pressure to look like they're doing something. You ask about where the T9 will get its trade from.... a very valid point given that since BMIBaby left Cardiff Airport, passenger figures have more than halved. However, this is politics and running near empty buses is more expedient and politically important than any other TC service - hence why they've redeployed the vehicles!

As for Aber now not having TrawsCymru services, it does have the T2 (which according to Lloyds website is TC!!). If you discount that, then you can effectively say that nowhere north of Newtown has a TC service!
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Old 5th August 2013, 12:40   #201
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"This service will only pick up and set down at locations stated on the timetable for passengers travelling to or from Cardiff Airport only." so it won't take any trade from the X91 other than the minimal numbers going to the Airport
Ok, so you can't use the T9 for an intermediate journey, say from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay, so set-down-only on services from the airport and pick-up-only in the other direction? If so, that explains how they are able to run that but not the TC1.

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running near empty buses is more expedient and politically important than any other TC service - hence why they've redeployed the vehicles!
There is currently yet another petition (the third I've seen since moving to Wales I think) to reopen the Carmarthen - Aberystwth line. By passenger numbers, the X40 was the most important route of TrawsCambria (hence why it was supposed to have been a TrawsCymru launch route, along with the 704 which had the fastest growth in passenger numbers).

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As for Aber now not having TrawsCymru services, it does have the T2 (which according to Lloyds website is TC!!). If you discount that, then you can effectively say that nowhere north of Newtown has a TC service!
Aber not having TrawsCymru services? It never actually got any, and TrawsCambria is just about hanging on in the form of six each way from Cardigan on services X50/550. As I said above, I think the X94 is still TrawsCambria also (and it's north of Newtown).

Going into orriginal speculation mode, I'd guess that the T2 is funded out of the TrawsCymru pot but is not officially part of the network because it doesn't meet the network's quality standards (Optare Tempos with wi-fi). Come to think of it, is X94 fully commertial or is that partly funded out of the TrawsCambria/Cymru pot too?
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Old 5th August 2013, 13:48   #202
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Ok, so you can't use the T9 for an intermediate journey, say from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay, so set-down-only on services from the airport and pick-up-only in the other direction? If so, that explains how they are able to run that but not the TC1.

There is currently yet another petition (the third I've seen since moving to Wales I think) to reopen the Carmarthen - Aberystwth line. By passenger numbers, the X40 was the most important route of TrawsCambria (hence why it was supposed to have been a TrawsCymru launch route, along with the 704 which had the fastest growth in passenger numbers).

Aber not having TrawsCymru services? It never actually got any, and TrawsCambria is just about hanging on in the form of six each way from Cardigan on services X50/550. As I said above, I think the X94 is still TrawsCambria also (and it's north of Newtown).

Going into orriginal speculation mode, I'd guess that the T2 is funded out of the TrawsCymru pot but is not officially part of the network because it doesn't meet the network's quality standards (Optare Tempos with wi-fi). Come to think of it, is X94 fully commertial or is that partly funded out of the TrawsCambria/Cymru pot too?
Reopen the Carmarthen to Aber line? They've got no chance, IMHO. It is costing 350m to reopen the Borders line from Gala to Edinburgh and the main structures are still extant. To reopen that you'd have to spend upwards of 600m!

X94 is a commercial service. Think I mentioned that's why it got TCam branding yet the vehicles were standard Arriva Daf/Commanders. The tendered stuff is operated by GHA. Those have now been replaced by Arriva B7RLEs (ex KMP, Llanberis) and are in standard livery. Arriva continue to call it TrawsCambria so fair to say it's not a TrawsCymru service.

T2 is called TrawsCymru by Lloyds Coaches and is probably a TC route. However, the vehicles were a quick fix after the X32 withdrawal. Who knows what the longer term plan is?
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Old 6th August 2013, 18:48   #203
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As an aside, the 701 service that's run by Coach Travel Wales on Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays does stop at Cross Hands (and a few other places on the way). They use a coach rather than a bus, but it's just one journey from Aberystwyth to Cardiff and back. Concessionary bus passes are valid on the entire route though (they're not valid on the X40 between Carmarthen and Swansea). I hope the 701 is retained.
The good news is that the 701 will indeed be retained but a change of operator is in the offing. From the VOSA Bus Service registrations for 06th August 2013:

PG1058971/2 - COACH TRAVEL WALES LTD, LLYS EIFION YARD, PONTERWYD, ABERYSTWYTH, SY23 3AG
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Aberystwyth and Cardiff Bay given service number 701 effective from 29-Sep-2013.

PG1103020/1 - ERNEST GEORGE BRYAN T/A BRYANS COACHES, 23 FIFTH AVENUE, PENPARCAU, ABERYSTWYTH, SY23 1RE
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Aberystwyth Bus Station
Finish Point: Cardiff Bay
Via:
Service Number: 701
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Limited Stop
Effective Date: 29-SEP-2013
Other Details: Daily except Xmas Day, Boxing Day & New Years Day.

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Old 7th August 2013, 00:17   #204
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X94 is a commercial service. Think I mentioned that's why it got TCam branding yet the vehicles were standard Arriva Daf/Commanders. The tendered stuff is operated by GHA.
Part-commertial I think you said, hence it go TrawsCambria branding but not Tempos. Are all Arriva's workings now fully commertial or is there still a partial subsidy (for deviations from the direct route to take in smaller settlements perhaps, I think I've read claims that it was the diversions between Lampeter and Aberaeron that made the X40 require subsidy)?

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Arriva continue to call it TrawsCambria so fair to say it's not a TrawsCymru service.

T2 is called TrawsCymru by Lloyds Coaches and is probably a TC route. However, the vehicles were a quick fix after the X32 withdrawal. Who knows what the longer term plan is?
Indeed, X94 is not TrawsCymru. T2 isn't either in my opinion because it isn't shown on the official TrawsCymru website.

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Originally Posted by DaveHarries View Post
The good news is that the 701 will indeed be retained but a change of operator is in the offing. From the VOSA Bus Service registrations for 06th August 2013:

PG1058971/2 - COACH TRAVEL WALES LTD, LLYS EIFION YARD, PONTERWYD, ABERYSTWYTH, SY23 3AG
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Aberystwyth and Cardiff Bay given service number 701 effective from 29-Sep-2013.

PG1103020/1 - ERNEST GEORGE BRYAN T/A BRYANS COACHES, 23 FIFTH AVENUE, PENPARCAU, ABERYSTWYTH, SY23 1RE
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Aberystwyth Bus Station
Finish Point: Cardiff Bay
Via:
Service Number: 701
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Limited Stop
Effective Date: 29-SEP-2013
Other Details: Daily except Xmas Day, Boxing Day & New Years Day.

HTIOI,
Dave
Why have Coach Travel Wales canceled theirs?
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Old 7th August 2013, 15:32   #205
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Part-commertial I think you said, hence it go TrawsCambria branding but not Tempos. Are all Arriva's workings now fully commertial or is there still a partial subsidy (for deviations from the direct route to take in smaller settlements perhaps, I think I've read claims that it was the diversions between Lampeter and Aberaeron that made the X40 require subsidy)?

Indeed, X94 is not TrawsCymru. T2 isn't either in my opinion because it isn't shown on the official TrawsCymru website.

Why have Coach Travel Wales canceled theirs?
Not sure if they are if they are closing down their operations or just concentrating on local contracts around Aberystwyth.
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Old 7th August 2013, 20:08   #206
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Part-commertial I think you said, hence it go TrawsCambria branding but not Tempos. Are all Arriva's workings now fully commertial or is there still a partial subsidy (for deviations from the direct route to take in smaller settlements perhaps, I think I've read claims that it was the diversions between Lampeter and Aberaeron that made the X40 require subsidy)?

Indeed, X94 is not TrawsCymru. T2 isn't either in my opinion because it isn't shown on the official TrawsCymru website.
For more information, you might want to have a squint at this....

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/ADNPwyllgo...pendix%201.pdf

Hope that link works. It relates to the replacement of Arriva's X32 last year, and here are some key lines are....

A project was established to provide certain weekday and Saturday journeys on what will now be known as the TrawsCymru ™ service T2, which will be provided as part of the longer distance strategic bus links as part of the national TrawsCymru™ network.

So T2 is definitely a TC route! Also, the issue about extending the X50 to Aber is probably covered by this line, as the same concerns were raised on certain parts of the T2.

The journeys tendered avoided any direct or obvious claims of abstraction (‘abstraction’ – ‘where a service receiving state aid is seen to compete for passengers with a service operated on a commercial basis. This is contrary to the relevant legislation’)

As regards the X94, the vehicles were part funded as were those of the X32 viz:

The Monday - Saturday (X32) services were operated on a totally commercial basis by Arriva and provided for a regular two hour daytime services on the
corridor. Prior to this Gwynedd Council had facilitated the payments of Welsh Government funding to Arriva for the upgrading of vehicles deployed on the route.


The X94 had the same, and in 2005 had a full hourly clockface timetable. Now it's two hourly from Wrexham to Dolgellau, and the evening service is now operated by GHA. Based on that, I'd suggest that the Arriva service is now fully commercial though there may be de-minimis diversions that are paid for?
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Old 8th August 2013, 00:06   #207
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For more information, you might want to have a squint at this....

http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/ADNPwyllgo...pendix%201.pdf

Hope that link works.
Yeah, the link worked for me. Thanks, it confirms that the funding does come from WAG, therefore probably from the TrawsCymru pot, as I guessed earlier. It was definately supposed to be a TrawsCymru route, but according to some comments I've had on Flickr the Tempos that were allocated were rejected, either due to having to wear the TrawsCymru livery or concerns they had acclumilated too much mileage.

The route has not been included on the TrawsCymru website and I'd guess that is because it doesn't meet the standards expected for the network. It is supposed to be part of the network and is funded as part of the network, yet it isn't propperly part of the network. The X50/550 is probably funded as part of the network also (unless there's still a seperate 'TrawsCambria pot' too), but seemingly neither they nor the T2 have officially become part of it YET.
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Old 8th August 2013, 13:21   #208
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Yeah, the link worked for me. Thanks, it confirms that the funding does come from WAG, therefore probably from the TrawsCymru pot, as I guessed earlier. It was definately supposed to be a TrawsCymru route, but according to some comments I've had on Flickr the Tempos that were allocated were rejected, either due to having to wear the TrawsCymru livery or concerns they had acclumilated too much mileage.

The route has not been included on the TrawsCymru website and I'd guess that is because it doesn't meet the standards expected for the network. .
Wouldn't always rely on Flickr comments - more than a bit of guesswork is put forward as fact

Similarly, the TC website is hardly reassuring in its approach. Yes, the T4 is on there but whilst there is a mention of TCC services, that is all it is - a mention.

I'd still include T2 and X50/550 as TrawsCymru routes. Fact is that whether you use TrawsCambria or TrawsCymru, it's where the money comes from that is important, even if they don't appear on the website or carry the livery. That said, when finances permit, I'm sure that the WG will look to source new vehicles in the new livery for those.

Interesting little change a few weeks ago. The GHA Sunday journeys that were numbered T3 have now been renumbered back to X94
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Old 9th August 2013, 12:32   #209
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A fulll timetable for service T9:

http://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/Do...Service-T9.pdf

Seems there are a lot of people who are very unhappy that the WG have spent money on this route when the majority of buses in the vale of glamorgan are being cut.

AP Travel have annouced that they are withdrawing the Talbot Green - Cowbridge service later this month which was the finally remaining service from the villiage bus network.

Before anyone asks AP Travel is not owned by myself (I have already have somebody as me that)
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Old 10th August 2013, 13:44   #210
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There is currently yet another petition (the third I've seen since moving to Wales I think) to reopen the Carmarthen - Aberystwth line.
That is the re-opening I would like to see above all others (except, perhaps, Ruabon to Barmouth via Llangollen) but it's impossible because much of the original trackbed has been redeveloped. The local councillors who support the campaign are living in fantasy land.

The two towns are only 50 miles apart, and connected by a decent road, so although it pains me to say it the obvious solution would be a better bus service. But it appears that there is simply not enough demand to sustain such a link.
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