[Welshman]

Originally Posted by johnnychips

How long has Man Piccadilly had platforms 13/14, or were they always there?

Since 1st August 1849!!

They were originally built by the Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway [MSJ & A], serving what was then London Rd.

From May 1931, services were electrified with the DC 1500 volt system.

But perhaps its fair to say that it's only been in the last 40 years or so, with the closure of Central and Exchange stations, that the stretch between Piccadilly and Oxford Rd has been more intensively-used.

[John55]

Originally Posted by Welshman

Since 1st August 1849!!

They were originally built by the Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway [MSJ & A], serving what was then London Rd.

From May 1931, services were electrified with the DC 1500 volt system.

But perhaps its fair to say that it's only been in the last 40 years or so, with the closure of Central and Exchange stations, that the stretch between Piccadilly and Oxford Rd has been more intensively-used.

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

I have a reprint of a street map from the 20s which shows the 3 stations at the current Piccadilly as Manchester (Great Central), Manchester (L&NWR) and Manchester (MSJ&A). All are shown as separate and terminals. It would be interesting to know if there were through passenger trains from Oxford Rd to Stockport (or anywhere else) before or after 1931 or if it was only goods trains and excursions which ran through.

[Welshman]

Originally Posted by John55

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

Thank-you for that, John55.
I used the wrong word, of course. I should have said "extensive" rather than "intensive", referring to the fact trains now use that short stretch for journeys to Scotland, Liverpool, Blackpool, Sheffield, Norwich, etc, etc.

To back-up what you say about the MSJ&ARly service frequency, not for nothing was the company known for its Many Short Journeys & Absolute Reliability.

[johnnychips]

Thanks to you both. Really surprised about that.

[172212]

I think Aberystwyth is a termni station, if I remember correctly

[L&Y Robert]

Originally Posted by John55

Between 1931 and 1960 when Oxford Rd to London Rd was closed to be rebuilt and the voltage changed to 25kV there were up to 12 trains per hour between Oxford Rd and London Rd in the peaks. I don't think that has been matched since.

When I attended Manchester Art School (All Saints) in the mid-sixties, Oxford Road station was being re-built under a timber laminated "shell" roof. At that time the station was, in effect, two back-to-back terminal stations - one the terminus of the Altrincham Line (DC overhead system) and the other a mere extended finger of the new (then) 25kv "Manchester - Crewe" electrification which extended over most, but not all, of Picadilly station. I think there was a token "Through Siding" at Oxford Road, but not under either of the wires. Picadilly also had the Manchester-Wath-Sheffield (Woodhead route) DC system terminating on the East side of the station.

[mister-sparky]

Originally Posted by AndyLandy

Fair point. However, where do we stand when (if) the new HS2 station at Birmingham Curzon Street opens? I assume that'll be a through station and I assume it'll be built on or near the site of the original Curzon Street station...

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

[route:oxford]

Originally Posted by mister-sparky

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

Is Bourne End a twin-terminus or a through station?

There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

[HLE 13]

Originally Posted by route:oxford

Is Bourne End a twin-terminus or a through station?

There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

Bourne End is a though station as the train crew on the Maidenhead to Marlow via Bourne End services aka the Nodding Donkey have to change ends at Bourne End to continue their journey.

Equally, I believe that in the peaks First Great Western use two DMUs - one operates as a shuttle service between Maidenhead and Bourne End while the other operates as a shuttle service between Marlow and Bourne End.

Therefore in conclusion, Bourne End is special as it operates as a though station the majority of the time but acts as a twin terminus during peak hours.

[klambert]

I'm surprised no ones mentioned Bristol Templemeads, it was the original Great western terminus from London, before it was converted into a through station.

[steamybrian]

It was my understanding that at Stuttgart the existing ground level track and platforms are being replaced by new underground track on a different alignment but by using as much of the existing station buildings and concourse as possible.
Similiar to the present City Thameslink station which replaced the terminus of Holborn Viaduct where the existing ground level track and platforms were replaced by through track underground but used some of the old station building and concourse.

[142094]

Originally Posted by steamybrian

It was my understanding that at Stuttgart the existing ground level track and platforms are being replaced by new underground track on a different alignment but by using as much of the existing station buildings and concourse as possible.

The platforms in effect will be turned 90 degrees and built under the current station buildings, although there has been a lot of demolition work which hasn't pleased local people. DB are going through with the project to increase capacity and lower journey times. Quite a lot of work involved, and not something I'd heard of being done before.

[AndyLandy]

Originally Posted by mister-sparky

the original curzon street had parallel platforms, but no through trains ever operated apparently. and the new hs2 station is going to be a terminus. so no to that as well.

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North. I'm surprised that a terminus station makes sense!

(But yes, if the original Curzon St. was always a through station, then it's automatically ruled out)

[LE Greys]

Originally Posted by AndyLandy

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North. I'm surprised that a terminus station makes sense!

(But yes, if the original Curzon St. was always a through station, then it's automatically ruled out)

Presumably, they're assuming that the through trains will bypass Birmingham at the triangle, possibly stopping at International, if they can access it, and continue directly to Manchester. That strikes me as rather missing the point of a railway.

[Eagle]

Originally Posted by AndyLandy

Good grief! Do we know why? I thought the point of HS2 is that there'd (eventually) be through services on HS2 that continue to the North.

There will be, but through International and heading up the Trent Valley. It's not very feasible to plough a high-speed line through the middle of Birmingham and the Black Country, after all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by route:oxford

There is regular mention in the press about a reconnection to Wycombe.

Not entirely sure that's possible; the line is protected (now) but there has been some houses built on the alignment at Wooburn.