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Old 31st May 2012, 16:49   #1
dcd
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Default First class ticket, First Class in timetable, no 1st class on train

If you have a First class ticket and the timetable says First Class but there is no 1st class on train can you make a claim?
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Old 31st May 2012, 16:52   #2
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If you have a First class ticket and the timetable says First Class but there is no 1st class on train can you make a claim?
Yes, you can claim the difference in the ticket price for the leg of the journey you are making. This is happening a lot a the moment on Scotrails Edinburgh - Glasgow route.
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Old 31st May 2012, 16:53   #3
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Yes. See Condition 38 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:02   #4
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Yes. See Condition 38 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
Can I claim before I even travel?

I have bought a first Class ALR for July and tried to reserve a 1st class seats at my local booking office on the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalshe and return but only got standard seats. Tried booking a 1st class return ticket online but these are not offered.

See attached page from current timetable.
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:04   #5
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This problem happens with southern too as they have 313's on routes which are booked to have first class. also, they are booked on 1hr 30min journeys without toilets
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:07   #6
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Originally Posted by dcd View Post
Can I claim before I even travel?

I have bought a first Class ALR for July and tried to reserve a 1st class seats on the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalshe and return but only got standard seats. Tried booking a 1st class return ticket but these are not offered.

See attached page from current timetable.
That is an interesting mistake in the NRT and even the online version shows the train as first class. What is worse is that when you get on the train it will have a declassified first class section. However in reality you have had a lucky escape, all you would get different is a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Others with greater expertise will comment about the refund for the rover. I doubt it as you can use other trains with 1st class should you want to the same day.
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:12   #7
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Can I claim before I even travel?
I doubt it. How could you prove prior to the advertised time of travel that First Class accommodation will not be provided?
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:31   #8
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I don't think you'll get anything for an ALR.
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:33   #9
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That is an interesting mistake in the NRT and even the online version shows the train as first class. What is worse is that when you get on the train it will have a declassified first class section. However in reality you have had a lucky escape, all you would get different is a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Others with greater expertise will comment about the refund for the rover. I doubt it as you can use other trains with 1st class should you want to the same day.
Why a lucky escape are the biscuits that bad?
Do you mean I could go somewhere else as Red Spotted Hanky do not offer any 1st class tickets on any train that day to Kyle of Lochalshe.


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Old 31st May 2012, 17:39   #10
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Yes, you can claim the difference in the ticket price for the leg of the journey you are making. This is happening a lot a the moment on Scotrails Edinburgh - Glasgow route.
How would this work on, for example, a first advance ticket from Glasgow to Darlington Route: EC & Connections what fares do you use to work out the difference?
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:39   #11
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No first class on services north of Inverness (even though you may find 1st on the train it will be declassified). I do not think you will get any refund as Scotrail advertise no 1st on that route.

You could always try the Royal-Scotsman for an enhanced journey opportunity?
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:45   #12
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Quote:
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Why a lucky escape are the biscuits that bad?
Do you mean I could go somewhere else as Red Spotted Hanky do not offer any 1st class tickets on any train that day to Kyle of Lochalshe.


HD
I mean by lucky escape it is not worth the premium. The seats on the 158s that operate the route are exactly the same. They are not really separated from the rest of the train and you could buy a lot of tea and biscuits from the trolley with the money you save. The last time in did Perth - Inverness on a 158 (solo) there was a higher density in 1st (no spare seats) to standard (about half full) so in that case you got less space but refreshments.

I took a look at Scotrails site, who operate the route, they don't even price first class tickets. No idea why when all the trains on that route have the 1st class section.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
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How would this work on, for example, a first advance ticket from Glasgow to Darlington Route: EC & Connections what fares do you use to work out the difference?
In that case you would get nothing, as you got 1st class for part of your journey. Yesterday they even said, 1st class passengers may wish to wait for the next service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
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No first class on services north of Inverness (even though you may find 1st on the train it will be declassified). I do not think you will get any refund as Scotrail advertise no 1st on that route.

You could always try the Royal-Scotsman for an enhanced journey opportunity?
Not by scotrail, but for some reason the national rail timetable does.

Last edited by Failed Unit; 31st May 2012 at 17:45. Reason: Double post prevention system
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:56   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failed Unit View Post

I took a look at ScotRail,s site, who operate the route, they don't even price first class tickets. No idea why when all the trains on that route have the 1st class

Not by ScotRail, but for some reason the national rail timetable does.

Yes, noticed that from screen shot. Now from a passenger's point of view this is confusing to say the least. There are, in theory, many ways to resolve this but how can you refund the difference in fare between 1st & STD when there is NO difference because there is no 1st class fare?

Who should compensate? Who has made the error? National Rail i.e. ATOC or ScotRail?

I'd advise the pax to arrive early & bag one off the declassified 1st seats.
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Old 31st May 2012, 17:57   #14
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Quote:
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In that case you would get nothing, as you got 1st class for part of your journey. Yesterday they even said, 1st class passengers may wish to wait for the next service
Okay that seems reasonable enough. But, a follow up if I may, the NRCoC say that:

Quote:
38. Travelling in standard class accommodation with a first class ticket

If you have a first class ticket (or the equivalent) and the first class accommodation (or the equivalent) shown in the National Rail Timetable is not available in any train you travel in, you may claim a refund of the difference in price between the first class and the standard class ticket for the relevant part of your journey.
With specific reference to the bits I've bolded, by my reading that would suggest that if one part of the journey does not offer first class where it is supposed to you can claim compensation? Or is my reading comprehension off?
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Old 31st May 2012, 18:12   #15
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Quote:
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I mean by lucky escape it is not worth the premium.
But I have already paid the premium as I have a 1st ALR already.


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