[embers25]

From the RMT website:

Bob Crow strikes again!

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...ntNodeID=89732

RAIL UNION RMT announced today that is to ballot staff on South West Trains for industrial action after the company reneged on Olympics agreements linked to this year’s pay settlement and attempted to impose a new regime that would force staff to work longer hours on extended services for nothing in return for the entire duration of the games.
This year’s pay agreement was accepted by staff following assurances from the company stating that there would minimal impact and that it would be “Business as Usual” during the Olympic/Paralympic period.
Recent developments show that this is clearly not the case as the company is now advertising additional trains and later running over the entire period. South West Trains (SWT) has hired extra rolling stock and has hired extra staff. Also, extra crews will be on standby, cleaners will have an increased work load, as will platform staff, ticket office staff, guards and the rest of the team.
SWT have issued no guarantees that existing rosters and agreed working patterns will be honoured without enforced overtime for all grades. RMT members report SWT managers admitting that an extra 80,000 passengers per day would be using Waterloo. SWT’s website confirms later running and additional services throughout the games periods including special timetables for the rowing at Eton and the sailing at Weymouth.
As a result RMT has declared a formal dispute and has begun preparations for a ballot for both strike action and action short of a strike.
RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said:
“Other train operators, notably Heathrow Express this week, have negotiated agreements with RMT that recognise the added pressures of the Olympics. South West Trains have taken a different approach, reneging on earlier agreements and instead trying to bully staff into accepting enforced increases to working hours and workload with nothing in return.
“RMT will not stand by and watch while agreements and procedures are trampled in the dirt purely in the interests of profit as SWT exploit the games for their own benefit at our member’s expense. We remain available for talks aimed at resolving this dispute and the ball is now firmly in the companies court.”

Now I'm sorry but extra late night trains on SWT have been common knowledge for MONTHS and also the same for all operators and so for the RMT to claim otherwise is frankly ridiculous. Just because HEX agreed stupidly to pay extra, Bob Crow is now trying to hold the other companies to ransom. The RMT and UNITE are out of control now, talk about power going to their heads.
As many are aware I am not SWT's biggest fan but I hope to god they stand firm here and don't cave in to more ridiculous union demands as they are dead right to offer nothing.

[Schnellzug]

Obviously, this is just good ol' Bob, the passengers' friend, trying it on, and that after all is basically his job, so i don't suppose we should be surprised. Still, it would amuse me, although I'm pretty sure that LOCOG, who seem to have more power than the Government do, would be able to impose martial law or something to force them to cancel any industrial action.

South West Trains (SWT) has hired extra rolling stock

has it really?

[Matt Taylor]

Originally Posted by embers25

Now I'm sorry but extra late night trains on SWT have been common knowledge for MONTHS and also the same for all operators and so for the RMT to claim otherwise is frankly ridiculous. Just because HEX agreed stupidly to pay extra, Bob Crow is now trying to hold the other companies to ransom. The RMT and UNITE are out of control now, talk about power going to their heads.
As many are aware I am not SWT's biggest fan but I hope to god they stand firm here and don't cave in to more ridiculous union demands as they are dead right to offer nothing.

If you want to start a union bashing thread can you at least get the basic facts right.

[SS4]

Originally Posted by Matt Taylor

If you want to start a union bashing thread can you at least get the basic facts right.

Therein lies the biggest problem. Trade Unions are always portrayed as greedy and hostage takers. If the BBC can't be bothered to get the facts its hardly surprising the OP can't be bothered.
Union bashing usually comes down to lack of understanding (all drivers do is read the paper) or jealousy (I haven't got a wage increase this year so why should they?)

[Schnellzug]

Originally Posted by SS4

Therein lies the biggest problem. Trade Unions are always portrayed as greedy and hostage takers. If the BBC can't be bothered to get the facts its hardly surprising the OP can't be bothered.
Union bashing usually comes down to lack of understanding (all drivers do is read the paper) or jealousy (I haven't got a wage increase this year so why should they?)

Does Bob, though, which his perpetual rhetoric about Trampling the workers into the dirt and Management riding roughshod, really help? Why do Union leaders always seem to do their utmost to live up to the stereotypes? If Unions want people to understand and sympathise with them, why do they always sound just so old fashioned and argumentative?

[embers25]

Originally Posted by Matt Taylor

If you want to start a union bashing thread can you at least get the basic facts right.

That statement I quoted which was full of lies was an RMT one direct from their website not me so the "basic facts" are from the horses mouth.

[SS4]

Originally Posted by Schnellzug

Does Bob, though, which his perpetual rhetoric about Trampling the workers into the dirt and Management riding roughshod, really help? Why do Union leaders always seem to do their utmost to live up to the stereotypes? If Unions want people to understand and sympathise with them, why do they always sound just so old fashioned and argumentative?

What's Bob meant to do when nobody in the press will give him a fair hearing and anything he does say is usually taken out of context. Exactly where did the union leader stereotype come from?

Originally Posted by embers25

That statement I quoted which was full of lies was an RMT one direct from their website not me so the "basic facts" are from the horses mouth.

No link, no believe you (and I expect it to come from the RMT site)

[HexDriver]

I love the way people automatically assume its all down to Bob Crow that he sits in his office trying to decide where to call a strike next, when it reality most disputes start at local level and Bob only gets involved when local and regional reps are unable to agree with management and it gets escalated

Just to clarify the hex deal, payments are only triggered if the company meets their targets i.e a significant increase in their usual projections for that time of year and you happened to be working that day, theres 14 days in total where they expect it to be busier and you have to be working all of those to get £700

[embers25]

Originally Posted by SS4

No link, no believe you (and I expect it to come from the RMT site)

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...ntNodeID=89732

I assume by asking for a link it meant you didn't believe that the RMT could possibly state such rubbish. Also it wasn't from the BBC so to that poster are you saying the RMT haven't got their facts straight then!!! (Oh wait that's what I said so you couldn't possibly agree as that would be union bashing and its fine to mislead in a press release but to query such misleading releases is union bashing!)

Their latest news page is full of strikes (oh the surprise)...it really is about time the unions were brought back under control or better still crushed once and for all as they are killing the UK.

[causton]

Originally Posted by SS4

No link, no believe you (and I expect it to come from the RMT site)

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...ntNodeID=89732

Step 1: Google "RMT"
Step 2: Click on "Latest News"
Step 3: Click on above article
[meme]???
Step ∞: Profit![/meme]

Not saying I agree with either side but...

[SS4]

Originally Posted by embers25

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...ntNodeID=89732

Thanks, and don't I feel silly for looking in Events and Campaigns

Originally Posted by causton

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Inte...ntNodeID=89732


Step 1: Google "RMT"
Step 2: Click on "Latest News"
Step 3: Click on above article
[meme]???
Step ∞: Profit![/meme]

Not saying I agree with either side but...

Burden of proof

[embers25]

Originally Posted by HexDriver

I love the way people automatically assume its all down to Bob Crow that he sits in his office trying to decide where to call a strike next, when it reality most disputes start at local level and Bob only gets involved when local and regional reps are unable to agree with management and it gets escalated

Just to clarify the hex deal, payments are only triggered if the company meets their targets i.e a significant increase in their usual projections for that time of year and you happened to be working that day, theres 14 days in total where they expect it to be busier and you have to be working all of those to get £700

You shouldn't get a damn thing extra for doing your normal job its just opportunist money grabbing by the unions holding the country to ransom. Where does it end...do we start paying extra for Cup Final Day? I can see a conductor may have a little extra stress but what extra stress does the driver have anyway (except from possibly having to work a train a little later than usual)?

Bus drivers I can kind of see but still don't agree with but not train drivers. They are no more impacted than a fisherman in Scotland. This is just the RMT flexing its muscle to show it is still a force to be reckoned with and it needs crushing once and for all.

[HexDriver]

Originally Posted by embers25

You shouldn't get a damn thing extra for doing your normal job its just opportunist money grabbing by the unions holding the country to ransom. Where does it end...do we start paying extra for Cup Final Day? I can see a conductor may have a little extra stress but what extra stress does the driver have anyway (except from possibly having to work a train a little later than usual)?

Bus drivers I can kind of see but still don't agree with but not train drivers. They are no more impacted than a fisherman in Scotland. This is just the RMT flexing its muscle to show it is still a force to be reckoned with and it needs crushing once and for all.

Its not opportunist its a common sense decision by all sides and allows staff to benefit from the companies economic success and has staff going the extra mile, as for holding people to ransom how does that work if the company doesn't meet its extended targets no payment is made?

Also train drivers are impacted by working longer shifts and drivers are not hourly paid so the extra work they are being asked to do without any additional agreement means they are being asked to do for free, and i'm sure if in your line of work your employer demands to work longer you don't just bend over backwards and accept it.

People have the right to stand up for themselves and it just happens the RMT is actually quite good at doing that

[Tomnick]

Originally Posted by embers25

SWT have issued no guarantees that existing rosters and agreed working patterns will be honoured without enforced overtime for all grades

From your original post. It's one thing doing your normal job, between the times stated on your roster and known to you for weeks or months in advance; it's quite another to be forced to work overtime or have your roster changed at relatively short notice. Isn't it fair that they should get some sort of additional payment if they're being asked (or told) to be more flexible?

[Monty]

I have to say this is the first I've heard of it! To my knowledge the company has not backed out of any pay deal that was agreed and signed for nearly four months ago. The Olympics were mentioned during the discussions with the company hence why we were offered 4.75%, which the union advised us all to accept. It was made quite clear to us this was a final offer and no further discussion about extra pay for the games would be made and it would be business as usual. Infact the only thing left unresolved was the request by RMT that further pay review disscussions for guards would be held seprately from other grades like the drivers are currently done now. So a bit perplexed about this one!