[ushawk]

Originally Posted by BestWestern

As for the Guard being elsewhere on the train, that is a valid point but they would be on the scene very quickly and at the very least would be able to make efforts to direct people who are wandering off and risking their lives. DC land is not a safe haven just because one particular train has come to a halt, even if your train is a 'juicer' and trips the current all by itself there is nothing to stop a freight, NR, RHTT or indeed a DMU appearing out of nowhere on the adjacent line. Unsupervised pax lineside is not a good thing, and is worse still when they have misguided 'knowledge' of how things work.

And of course, if for example a DMU comes round a bend, not knowing there is an incident on the line - a good few people could be killed or seriously injured - and it will all of course be the fault of the TOC and Network Rail - not the fault of pax who think they have a great knowledge of railways.

[jonmorris0844]

Originally Posted by BestWestern

In reality, safety posters are not read by the vast majority of people and are put in place because the TOC has to, not because they expect most people to take it all in and memorise the content for the duration of their journey. They are also often found damaged or missing on many trains,

Your posts make it very clear that you are against DOO, which is fair enough... but in my experience I've never seen safety posters missing or damaged.

I haven't been on every train, obviously, but on FCC that I use most, they're always present, and easy to read. Given FCC continued with the design used by Wagn, they're almost identical to what I'd imagine GA uses (with NXEA having them before). Pretty simple summarised info that most people should understand.

Drivers will always give a safety announcement before the train sets off (admittedly, not again for the benefit of those joining along the way) and the screens on 317s will do so when leaving King's Cross and once more after leaving Finsbury Park.

If people are told then there's little more a TOC can do. If people say they weren't told anything, then they're probably lying and actually mean they weren't paying attention. These are the ones who talk through the safety briefing on a plane, and haven't travelled loads of times before and don't necessarily appreciate the subtle differences from one plane to another (manufacturer, configuration etc).

[TempleRyan]

I understand now from news reports and eyewitnesses that passengers close to the fire were told to move down the carriages, but still told to stay on board. Apparently, one or two opened the doors and got off the train, with the rest following.

Finally, this picture shows conditions in one of the carriages, although I haven't got a clue why someone would stay behind, take a risk and take a picture. http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/resources/images/2044413/
Would you all stay on board or move down if conditions were like this? I think I would, but I'd be interested to see what others say.

[No Fault Found]

Originally Posted by TempleRyan

I understand now from news reports and eyewitnesses that passengers close to the fire were told to move down the carriages, but still told to stay on board. Apparently, one or two opened the doors and got off the train, with the rest following.

Finally, this picture shows conditions in one of the carriages, although I haven't got a clue why someone would stay behind, take a risk and take a picture. http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/resources/images/2044413/
Would you all stay on board or move down if conditions were like this? I think I would, but I'd be interested to see what others say.

It's just dark due to the wiring having a burn up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Standard this evening reported that the fire was a direct result of somebody placing a large piece of metal across the track in an attempt to derail it or cause serious damage.

[TempleRyan]

Originally Posted by No Fault Found

It's just dark due to the wiring having a burn up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Standard this evening reported that the fire was a direct result of somebody placing a large piece of metal across the track in an attempt to derail it or cause serious damage.

There's also quite a lot of smoke in the air, which has got to be harmful. Yeah, that would seem to be the cause. On the up side then, it could have been a lot worse.

[millemille]

Originally Posted by No Fault Found

The Standard this evening reported that the fire was a direct result of somebody placing a large piece of metal across the track in an attempt to derail it or cause serious damage.

Which is pure speculation on their part.

[ushawk]

Originally Posted by millemille

Which is pure speculation on their part.

Well, its half true. Yes an object was put on the line and did cause damage - why the BTP have launched an appeal - what the object was is unknown.

[Harbon 1]

Are the shoe beams on Bombardiers not wooden? Could it have sparked and caught fire

Edit:

Didn't see the post above, rendering my idea redundant

[millemille]

Originally Posted by ushawk

Well, its half true. Yes an object was put on the line and did cause damage - why the BTP have launched an appeal - what the object was is unknown.

Without going into details due to the ongoing BTP investigation: there is no evidence to date of this being anything other than a regular shoe gear burn up.

Shoegear burn ups are relatively regular occurance (couple every year) and there can be a variety of causes: including, but not exclusively, items on the line that aren't there as a result of malicious intent or train faults or maintenance failings (both train and infrastructure) .

Yes, there have been deliberate acts of sabotage in the past. Shopping trolley's chucked off the bridges in the Woolwich/Plumstead/Medway area used to be a favourite but these have decreased noticeably (even in the school holidays).

[BestWestern]

Originally Posted by jonmorris0844

Your posts make it very clear that you are against DOO, which is fair enough... but in my experience I've never seen safety posters missing or damaged.

I haven't been on every train, obviously, but on FCC that I use most, they're always present, and easy to read. Given FCC continued with the design used by Wagn, they're almost identical to what I'd imagine GA uses (with NXEA having them before). Pretty simple summarised info that most people should understand.

Drivers will always give a safety announcement before the train sets off (admittedly, not again for the benefit of those joining along the way) and the screens on 317s will do so when leaving King's Cross and once more after leaving Finsbury Park.

If people are told then there's little more a TOC can do. If people say they weren't told anything, then they're probably lying and actually mean they weren't paying attention. These are the ones who talk through the safety briefing on a plane, and haven't travelled loads of times before and don't necessarily appreciate the subtle differences from one plane to another (manufacturer, configuration etc).

I should point point out that my 'missing poster' experiences actually relate to non-DOO stock, but I made a presumption that it would be a fairly common issue elsewhere as well. If FCC make more effort to keep them neat and present, then fair play to them. I would still maintain though that many don't bother reading them, but of course that is outside of the control of the TOC

[jonmorris0844]

I should say that FCC seems to have fewer problems with the type of people that might remove or damage the notices.

Having had the pleasure of using trains in parts of Essex and Kent, it is perhaps not the TOCs we should blame. Nor can I imagine some of the passengers even knowing how to read!

[ushawk]

Originally Posted by millemille

Without going into details due to the ongoing BTP investigation: there is no evidence to date of this being anything other than a regular shoe gear burn up.

Shoegear burn ups are relatively regular occurance (couple every year) and there can be a variety of causes: including, but not exclusively, items on the line that aren't there as a result of malicious intent or train faults or maintenance failings (both train and infrastructure) .

Yes, there have been deliberate acts of sabotage in the past. Shopping trolley's chucked off the bridges in the Woolwich/Plumstead/Medway area used to be a favourite but these have decreased noticeably (even in the school holidays).

http://www.btp.presscentre.com/Media...tion-1ada.aspx

States 2 men were seen "running from the scene" and remains of an object have been found on the line and are being forensically tested. I hardly think the BTP are going to make something out of nothing.

[SouthStand]

Haven't read every post, and I don't know the number of members on these forums, but am surprised 3 members were on the affected train. Seems statistically a little high!

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by SouthStand

Haven't read every post, and I don't know the number of members on these forums, but am surprised 3 members were on the affected train. Seems statistically a little high!

It looks like two folk joined in order to make their contribution to the thread, perhaps after searching for news of the incident.

It's how I first came upon this site - Googling for details of a rail incident and alighting on RailUK Forums.

[jonmorris0844]

Originally Posted by ushawk

States 2 men were seen "running from the scene" and remains of an object have been found on the line and are being forensically tested. I hardly think the BTP are going to make something out of nothing.

Especially when they'd normally be expected to do nothing out of something.