London Midland and Wembley Central

SprinterMan · 9th July 2012, 00:29

Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore?
Silverlink used to serve it hourly.
Adam

RJ · 9th July 2012, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprinterMan

Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore?
Silverlink used to serve it hourly.
Adam

Probably because there is no need. There are already at least 6tph to London/Harrow from Wembley Central during the day.

gnolife · 9th July 2012, 02:02

I'd suggest that it might be down to a shortage of paths - in the same way that the half hourly peak service between the Mid-Cheshire line and Manchester got reduced to make way for a 3rd Euston service, LM might have been told to cut Wembley stops out. This is just what I think would be a likely reason anyway.

cle · 9th July 2012, 08:34

They only really served it at night and at events - usually weekends so easier anyway.

There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph service - this was also when Bushey was served outside of the peaks regularly.

Those trains were popular but absolutely ate faster paths. With EPS coming, combined with 321s, the pathing for 'LM' expresses on the fast tracks was impossible and these trains were canned, with the exception of Bushey ones.

Queens Park is the busiest station between Euston and Birmingham, or Manchester. The slow trains are hugely used - there is easily scope (and desire) in the future for semi-fast trains to return to Queens Park especially with lots of development planned. It's a major interchange for the area.

Wembley Central I would think could also sustain some - Southern take a stopping path of course which an LM could take - but they are largely separate until then (heading northbound).

ChiefPlanner · 9th July 2012, 08:40

[I]There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph I]

Poorly used and not a good use of paths , esecially as WCML Route mod was about to push more traffic onto the slow lines after PUG2 was signed. Due to Travelcard issues , the revenue aportionment was also very low.

Bushey now enjoys a full all day 30 min service - which has done very well

t0ffeeman · 9th July 2012, 12:24

The DC off peak service was also reduced to a 30 min frequency during this period c1996? Also the Clapham service had just changed to 313s from 117s et al and the NLL had started running again. However the Abbey remained as a 313 IIRC.

So this service seemed to be part of a much larger unit juggling operation.

al green · 9th July 2012, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cle

Queens Park is the busiest station between Euston and Birmingham, or Manchester. The slow trains are hugely used - there is easily scope (and desire) in the future for semi-fast trains to return to Queens Park especially with lots of development planned. It's a major interchange for the area.

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

cle · 9th July 2012, 13:16

Including the tube? Which I think is perfectly valid, given interchange possibility.

ushawk · 9th July 2012, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by al green

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

I would have thought that Rugby, Birmingham Intl, Northampton and Watford, maybe a couple of other stations are higher too.

ChiefPlanner · 9th July 2012, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by t0ffeeman

The DC off peak service was also reduced to a 30 min frequency during this period c1996? Also the Clapham service had just changed to 313s from 117s et al and the NLL had started running again. However the Abbey remained as a 313 IIRC.

So this service seemed to be part of a much larger unit juggling operation.

Near enough right - the DC came back to 3 tph very shortly after NX took over from BR , - and the main line shuttle of 1 tph Watford / 1 tph Bletchley to Euston off peak calling at Bushey , Harrow , Wembley , Queens Park and Euston reverted back to 2 tph to MK calling Harrow , Bushey etc etc

There was no real issue with the 313 fleet at the time as there were , I think 24 sets for 21 diagrams , 6 DC , 2 Clapham , 1 Abbey and 10 NLL with an am peak short working diagram from Stratford LL to Camden Road.

Taking the DC to 30 mins off peak was a daft idea , and one I was glad to reverse quickly - the main line shuttle idea didnt really perform , apart form the glorious success of an all day Bushey main line service pattern.

**Mojo** · 9th July 2012, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cle

Including the tube? Which I think is perfectly valid, given interchange possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by al green

Nonsense. MK Central has 50% more pax than Queens Park according to latest Station Usage stats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ushawk

I would have thought that Rugby, Birmingham Intl, Northampton and Watford, maybe a couple of other stations are higher too.

With the Underground, there are over 7½ Million journeys to or from Queens Park station per year. I am not sure if there can be any other stations along the line other than Euston or New Street that have this number of customers per year.

ushawk · 9th July 2012, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

With the Underground, there are over 7½ Million journeys to or from Queens Park station per year. I am not sure if there can be any other stations along the line other than Euston or New Street that have this number of customers per year.

Wow, i had no idea it was that amount and had no idea it was that used !!

Robinson · 9th July 2012, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cle

They only really served it at night and at events - usually weekends so easier anyway.

There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph service - this was also when Bushey was served outside of the peaks regularly.

I believe LM still does serve Bushey all day...

causton · 9th July 2012, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinson

I believe LM still does serve Bushey all day...

Indeed, I took it to mean that all 3 stations could be served together without resulting in zero paths!

shaun · 9th July 2012, 20:56

It's served hourly (Sundays excepted) by Southern services, which is good but no good for anybody travelling to Central London. Wembley to London is a long haul on London Overground or London Underground, so it'd be nice to have a regular mainline service from there. The Southern service is currently Pick-up only in the Clapham direction, set-down only in the Watford direction. It would be most useful for people going north, so not sure why it does this? Also they keep the platforms locked until a couple of minutes before the train arrives, and there are no ticket barriers as the stairs lead straight to the street area.

Most people use Chiltern at the moment, but given the option i'm sure alot of them would be tempted onto LM.

9th July 2012, 00:29	#1
SprinterMan Established Member Join Date: 20 Sep 2010 Location: Bangor (Gwynedd) or Sudbury (Suffolk) Posts: 1,575	London Midland and Wembley Central Why don't London Midland serve Wembley Central routinely anymore? Silverlink used to serve it hourly. Adam

9th July 2012, 02:02	#3
gnolife Lucky Charm Member Join Date: 3 Nov 2010 Location: Wythenshawe, Sth Manchester Posts: 845	I'd suggest that it might be down to a shortage of paths - in the same way that the half hourly peak service between the Mid-Cheshire line and Manchester got reduced to make way for a 3rd Euston service, LM might have been told to cut Wembley stops out. This is just what I think would be a likely reason anyway. __________________

9th July 2012, 20:56	#15
shaun Member Join Date: 10 Nov 2009 Posts: 107	It's served hourly (Sundays excepted) by Southern services, which is good but no good for anybody travelling to Central London. Wembley to London is a long haul on London Overground or London Underground, so it'd be nice to have a regular mainline service from there. The Southern service is currently Pick-up only in the Clapham direction, set-down only in the Watford direction. It would be most useful for people going north, so not sure why it does this? Also they keep the platforms locked until a couple of minutes before the train arrives, and there are no ticket barriers as the stairs lead straight to the street area. Most people use Chiltern at the moment, but given the option i'm sure alot of them would be tempted onto LM. __________________ FGW HSTs - a pleasure to travel on.

9th July 2012, 08:34	#4
cle Member Join Date: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 756	They only really served it at night and at events - usually weekends so easier anyway. There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph service - this was also when Bushey was served outside of the peaks regularly. Those trains were popular but absolutely ate faster paths. With EPS coming, combined with 321s, the pathing for 'LM' expresses on the fast tracks was impossible and these trains were canned, with the exception of Bushey ones. Queens Park is the busiest station between Euston and Birmingham, or Manchester. The slow trains are hugely used - there is easily scope (and desire) in the future for semi-fast trains to return to Queens Park especially with lots of development planned. It's a major interchange for the area. Wembley Central I would think could also sustain some - Southern take a stopping path of course which an LM could take - but they are largely separate until then (heading northbound).

9th July 2012, 08:40	#5
ChiefPlanner Member Join Date: 6 Sep 2011 Location: Herts Posts: 830	[I]There was a period when both Wembley Central and Queens Park had regular 2tph I] Poorly used and not a good use of paths , esecially as WCML Route mod was about to push more traffic onto the slow lines after PUG2 was signed. Due to Travelcard issues , the revenue aportionment was also very low. Bushey now enjoys a full all day 30 min service - which has done very well

9th July 2012, 12:24	#6
t0ffeeman Member Join Date: 11 Jul 2008 Posts: 206	The DC off peak service was also reduced to a 30 min frequency during this period c1996? Also the Clapham service had just changed to 313s from 117s et al and the NLL had started running again. However the Abbey remained as a 313 IIRC. So this service seemed to be part of a much larger unit juggling operation.

9th July 2012, 13:16	#8
cle Member Join Date: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 756	Including the tube? Which I think is perfectly valid, given interchange possibility.