[headshot119]

The ATW track access application for changes to the timetable starting on the 17th of September 2012 is now available online.

The summary of the changes

Arriva Trains Wales will be operating the north-south Premier service in a new formation, Cl.67 + 4x Mk3 coaches + DVT. This formation allows the train to reverse at Chester and so be routed via Wrexham. 

The 0532 Holyhead-Cardiff will run via Wrexham and the 0511 Holyhead-Birmingham will run via Crewe. The path of the 0740 Crewe-Shrewsbury is taken by the 0532 Holyhead-Cardiff and is replaced by an 0638 departure from Crewe.

An additional 0700 Shrewsbury-Wrexham General and an additional 0747 Wrexham General-Shrewsbury will run, allowing passengers from stations between Wrexham and Shrewsbury to connect at Shrewsbury into the 0532 Holyhead-Cardiff. In the evening, the 1615 Cardiff-Holyhead via Crewe is replaced by a 1621 Cardiff-Chester, also via Crewe. The 1821 Cardiff-Holyhead will be worked by the loco-hauled set but the routeing, via Wrexham, is unchanged.

On the north Wales coast, several diagramming alterations have caused some changes to the service.

The full list of changes is as follows:
0700 Addl Shrewsbury-Wrexham General
0747 Addl Wrexham General-Shrewsbury
1615 Cardiff-Holyhead via Crewe will now depart Cardiff at 1621 and terminate at Chester
0650 Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno will now terminate at Llandudno Jn
0510 Cardiff Central-Holyhead will now be diverted to Llandudno
0750 Manchester Piccadilly-Llandudno will now be diverted to Bangor
0709 Birmingham International-Holyhead will now be diverted to Llandudno
0850 Manchester Piccadilly-Llandudno will now be diverted to Holyhead
1002 Addl Chester-Llandudno
1050 Manchester Piccadilly-Llandudno will now be diverted to Bangor
0751 Holyhead-Cardiff Central will now start from Llandudno at 0830
0845 Llandudno-Manchester Piccadilly will now start from Llandudno Jn at 0854
0908 Llandudno-Llandudno Jn is cancelled
0928 Llandudno Jn-Llandudno is cancelled
1008 Llandudno-Llandudno Jn is cancelled
1028 Llandudno Jn-Llandudno is cancelled
1308 Llandudno-Llandudno Jn is cancelled
1328 Llandudno Jn-Llandudno is cancelled
1033 Holyhead-Cardiff Central will now start from Bangor at 1102
1344 Llandudno-Manchester Piccadilly will now start from Bangor at 1331

These changes more suitably reflect customers' requirements and also make better use of Arriva

Interesting but it does seem that the Llandudno - Manchesters will perform a quicker turn around at Llandudno by not doing a run to Llandudno Junction and back. Which will destroy the rather regular service you get on the coast at the moment.

[LNW-GW Joint]

Haven't checked all the implications but this provides some Manchester-Bangor/Holyhead and Birmingham-Llandudno variations on the clock-face pattern.
The remarks about the Crewe-Shrewsbury path don't seem to make sense, unless it's me.
Nothing new Chester-Manchester I see.

[headshot119]

Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint

Haven't checked all the implications but this provides some Manchester-Bangor/Holyhead and Birmingham-Llandudno variations on the clock-face pattern.
The remarks about the Crewe-Shrewsbury path don't seem to make sense, unless it's me.
Nothing new Chester-Manchester I see.

The comment on the Crewe - Shrewsbury path is confusing, but I believe is meant to mean that the 0532 from Holyhead - Birmingham will now call all stations between Crewe and Shrewsbury, unlike the WAG which didn't.

[TGVDUDE]

Does anyone know what will happen to the mk2s currently employed on the wag workings if the Septembet setup is mk3s throughout

[anthony263]

Nope I havent heard anything although I would like to see them gett some use out of them

[Michael.Y]

Originally Posted by TGVDUDE

Does anyone know what will happen to the mk2s currently employed on the wag workings if the Septembet setup is mk3s throughout

I've heard rumours of additional services, but I'm not willing to divulge anything until it's announced officially by ATW. Plus there are some on here who refuse to believe ATW will pay the higher track access charges associated with LHS.

In the meantime, the current Premier Service will be lengthened to up to 6 coaches with no First Class (a la rugex) on days when there are football matches at the Millennium Stadium, with the WAG1 and WAG2 return timings swapped in the evening so that the 1615 will be a unit and the 1818 will be 67+Mk2s.

[merlodlliw]

Originally Posted by headshot119

The comment on the Crewe - Shrewsbury path is confusing, but I believe is meant to mean that the 0532 from Holyhead - Birmingham will now call all stations between Crewe and Shrewsbury, unlike the WAG which didn't.

I understand this diverted train will run via Crewe to arrive Salop at its usual time,but will not be a stopper between Crewe & Salop,path given to DVT
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by Michael.Y

I've heard rumours of additional services, but I'm not willing to divulge anything until it's announced officially by ATW. Plus there are some on here who refuse to believe ATW will pay the higher track access charges associated with LHS.

In the meantime, the current Premier Service will be lengthened to up to 6 coaches with no First Class (a la rugex) on days when there are football matches at the Millennium Stadium, with the WAG1 and WAG2 return timings swapped in the evening so that the 1615 will be a unit and the 1818 will be 67+Mk2s.

A lot of fog is being put about for the 2012/13 timetable, if ATW are to pay for an extra LHS service, hire of stock and all associated costs, this will be a sea change for ATW who have always refused to pay for such extra services.but the new franchise is less than five years away,none of my contacts at ATW have mentioned this, in fact an e mail from one of them which I made available said " no major changes in 2012/13" but this may be a bit of spin.
Consultation timetable for 2012/13 is supposed to out late August/Sept,then all will be revealed
Interesting weekday Manchester service Bangor/Holyhead confirms West/East growth.

Finally the wording "Premier Service" is back, whereas WG have been spinning enhanced service, so does this mean the Chef is still on board ,
I would also expect the BHX services to be brought back on the Salop /Wrexham line, as ATW have found an extra DMU to run between these two Monday to Friday to connect with the Birmingham at Salop & prevent the chaos at Chester station last Bank Holiday Monday when over 100 were stuck for two hours without a service

Bob

[tbtc]

Originally Posted by LNW-GW Joint

this provides some Manchester-Bangor/Holyhead and Birmingham-Llandudno variations on the clock-face pattern

This is the interesting part, which is both good news and bad news. Good news in that it restores the daytime link from Manchester to Bangor etc but bad news in that it spoils some of the simplicity of the clockface timetable.

Is this all just to save a unit (cutting back some Holyhead services to just Bangor, cutting some Llandudno services back to just the junction, cutting some of the "shuttles" from Llandudno to the junction)?

[anthony263]

Originally Posted by merlodlliw

A lot of fog is being put about for the 2012/13 timetable, if ATW are to pay for an extra LHS service, hire of stock and all associated costs, this will be a sea change for ATW who have always refused to pay for such extra services.but the new franchise is less than five years away,none of my contacts at ATW have mentioned this, in fact an e mail from one of them which I made available said " no major changes in 2012/13" but this may be a bit of spin.
Consultation timetable for 2012/13 is supposed to out late August/Sept,then all will be revealed
Bob

Thank you and I hope you will give us all a heads up when the consultation timetable is released.

[merlodlliw]

Originally Posted by anthony263

Thank you and I hope you will give us all a heads up when the consultation timetable is released.

Indeed I will,remember All the County Councils,Rugs & others get the consultation timetable, sadly ATW choose not to issue consultation documents for May & September, but wont get away withholding the 2012/13 consultation has this is already being asked for with CC to the Minister.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by tbtc

This is the interesting part, which is both good news and bad news. Good news in that it restores the daytime link from Manchester to Bangor etc but bad news in that it spoils some of the simplicity of the clockface timetable.

Is this all just to save a unit (cutting back some Holyhead services to just Bangor, cutting some Llandudno services back to just the junction, cutting some of the "shuttles" from Llandudno to the junction)?

You are probably correct, there will be a cut in service in this application somewhere. as occurred in the May timetable. I dont refer to WAG2 either

[jones_bangor]

Better links between Holyhead, Bangor and Manchester will be welcome news to many, including myself. Never understood why all the trains had to go to / start from Llandudno.

[Rhydgaled]

It looks as if Llandudno will have a less-frequent service, unless I missed something. Maybe that's your cut merlodlliw.

Also, as regards LHCS, the track-access might be higher but if they use the mark2s don't they own them, so only leasing costs for the locos?

[merlodlliw]

Originally Posted by Rhydgaled

It looks as if Llandudno will have a less-frequent service, unless I missed something. Maybe that's your cut merlodlliw.

Also, as regards LHCS, the track-access might be higher but if they use the mark2s don't they own them, so only leasing costs for the locos?

Yes that's my cut, I will need to spend a good few hours looking at what's hidden if the May timetable is anything to go by.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Originally Posted by jones_bangor

Better links between Holyhead, Bangor and Manchester will be welcome news to many, including myself. Never understood why all the trains had to go to / start from Llandudno.

Agree. Looks like Llandudno is well & truly demoted

[tbtc]

Originally Posted by Rhydgaled

It looks as if Llandudno will have a less-frequent service, unless I missed something. Maybe that's your cut merlodlliw

Originally Posted by merlodlliw

Looks like Llandudno is well & truly demoted

The maths in the recent thread about "spare" platforms at Llandudno showed that over the year there were only about fifteen passengers using each service at Llandudno (on average). Taken some busy weekend services in the summer away and that presumably means that the daytime service for most of the year sees even fewer.

Originally Posted by Rhydgaled

Also, as regards LHCS, the track-access might be higher but if they use the mark2s don't they own them, so only leasing costs for the locos?

They are still leasing the DMUs too though so it doesn't save anything

[merlodlliw]

The passenger on line timetable for ATW September/December is now available,first thoughts on the Chester/Shrewsbury line show two further Bank Holiday cuts in service making four BHX, all without any consultation,and what looks like a Birmingham service replaced with a Cardiff.

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/timetables/


Bob