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Old 6th October 2013, 07:30   #1
suley
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Default Via any permitted route?

Hi Guys, I plan to travel alot up and down from Wolverton back to Bolton over the coming months. I was looking at my travel plans and it seems there is only 1 train from MKC to Manchester per hour. I was wonder if my ticket said via any permitted route could I either

A) get the wolverton to London service (run by London Midland) and instead of alighting at MKC alight in London and switch to a Virgin service from there and head back up north as there are more services from London

or

B) At MKC get a Virgin train into Euston which is more frequent and then get a train heading into manchester again which may not necessarily stop at MKC.

Are any of these possible?
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Old 6th October 2013, 07:45   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suley View Post
Hi Guys, I plan to travel alot up and down from Wolverton back to Bolton over the coming months. I was looking at my travel plans and it seems there is only 1 train from MKC to Manchester per hour. I was wonder if my ticket said via any permitted route could I either

A) get the wolverton to London service (run by London Midland) and instead of alighting at MKC alight in London and switch to a Virgin service from there and head back up north as there are more services from London

or

B) At MKC get a Virgin train into Euston which is more frequent and then get a train heading into manchester again which may not necessarily stop at MKC.

Are any of these possible?
AFAIK this is "doubling back" (going one way then returning along the same track) and is generally not valid, except when stations are in the same "group" (e.g. it's permissible to go all the way down to Portsmouth Harbour rather than changing at Fratton)
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Old 6th October 2013, 07:48   #3
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Default Via any permitted route?

As mentioned above, due to doubling back, the only permissable way of doing Wolv-Eus-Manc or Wolv-MKC-Eus-Manc would be to buy two separate tickets 1-Wolv to MKC/EUS 2-MKC/EUS-Manc.
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Old 6th October 2013, 08:53   #4
suley
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Thanks guys going to have to ask the ticket office to see how much it costs as a broken journey ticket.
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Old 6th October 2013, 09:26   #5
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No, there's no such thing as a broken journey ticket; you would simply ask for a combination of tickets: Wolverton - London and London - Bolton.

However if you are travelling a lot, and at peak times, I suspect that it would be cheaper to purchase a Season Ticket for unlimited journeys between London & Bolton and any intermediate stations along any permitted route, the price depends on how long you want it for, starting at 1,276 for a calendar month, and you can add any number of days to that (it can be best value to make each Season last 5 working weeks, taking into account Bank Holidays, annual leave etc).

Last edited by yorkie; 6th October 2013 at 10:32. Reason: correction
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Old 6th October 2013, 09:32   #6
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There are generally 3 trains per hour from Manchester to London, one of which stops at Milton Keynes.

Time wise it would not make sense to travel via London, even if you had just missed a train which calls at MKC it would be quicker to wait an hour rather then go via London.

At certain times of the day, if you have just missed a train that calls at MKC, it is possible to change at Crewe for a service which calls at MKC.
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Old 6th October 2013, 10:30   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie View Post
I suspect that it would be cheaper to purchase a Season Ticket for unlimited journeys between London & Bolton and any intermediate stations along any permitted route, the price depends on how long you want it for, starting at 332.30 for a calendar month
332.30 is the weekly rate for a LONDON TERMINALS - BOLTON Route ANY PERMITTED Season Ticket, but this fare is available for periods of 1 month to 1 year only.

The calculator on this page of brfares.com shows that the Standard price for 1 month 0 days is 1,276.10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickw1 View Post
AFAIK this is "doubling back" (going one way then returning along the same track) and is generally not valid
nickw1 is correct that "doubling back" is generally not valid. But "going one way then returning along the same track" is not necessarily "doubling back". For example, all trains via Bradford Interchange do this because they must reverse at that station.

"Doubling back" is defined on page 2 of the National Routeing guide Instructions as "passing through the same station twice on a single journey".

Last edited by John @ home; 6th October 2013 at 10:31. Reason: .
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Old 6th October 2013, 11:03   #8
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You can do MKC-Bolton via Wigan for more choice.
Get the nn41 MKC-Chester, change at Crewe into nn09 Scotland train and then at Wigan NW at nn38.
Walk round to Wallgate and catch the nn48 train to Bolton arr nn02.
Journey time 2h21m.
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Old 6th October 2013, 11:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John @ home View Post
332.30 is the weekly rate for a LONDON TERMINALS - BOLTON Route ANY PERMITTED Season Ticket, but this fare is available for periods of 1 month to 1 year only.

The calculator on this page of brfares.com shows that the Standard price for 1 month 0 days is 1,276.10.
nickw1 is correct that "doubling back" is generally not valid. But "going one way then returning along the same track" is not necessarily "doubling back". For example, all trains via Bradford Interchange do this because they must reverse at that station.

"Doubling back" is defined on page 2 of the National Routeing guide Instructions as "passing through the same station twice on a single journey".
Thanks for that guys, at the min its more going on friday night and returning sunday night but then the odd journey mid week so i dont think a weekly would have much of a cost advantage? Am i right in thinking technically would i not be doubling back if lets say i got a service from MKC to EUS and then EUS to Manc that did not stop at MKC?

The idea of switching at Crew seems good also, i know it adds some journey time but I prefer to be moving then at the same stop.
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Old 6th October 2013, 12:22   #10
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Is the only reason doubling back at Milton Keynes Central is valid because journey planners allow it?
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Old 6th October 2013, 13:03   #11
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Originally Posted by suley View Post
Am i right in thinking technically would i not be doubling back if lets say i got a service from MKC to EUS and then EUS to Manc that did not stop at MKC?
That is doubling back - passing through the same station twice.

But, regardless of the doubling back, going via London is not a permitted route anyway.
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Old 7th October 2013, 01:23   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suley View Post
Thanks for that guys, at the min its more going on friday night and returning sunday night but then the odd journey mid week so i dont think a weekly would have much of a cost advantage? Am i right in thinking technically would i not be doubling back if lets say i got a service from MKC to EUS and then EUS to Manc that did not stop at MKC?
Doubling back does not require a train to stop at the station which is passed twice. You pass it, even at 125 mph, and it counts.

Any Permitted does not mean you can choose any route you wish. Permitted routes are determined by the NRCoC and the Routeing Guide and Any Permitted simply means you can use any of the permitted routes.
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Old 7th October 2013, 04:22   #13
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Forget the idea of going south.

Each hour at MKC there is a train north to Chester, then one north to Birmingham, then one north to Manchester.

Plenty of options for going north to Bolton. There is also the stopping train from MKC and Wolverton to crewe, on which there are cheaper tickets.
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Old 7th October 2013, 16:51   #14
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Only one or two Crewe services stop at Wolverton per day though. If I missed the Manchester service I'd get the xx13 Birmingham one and change there for Piccadilly. I think that's a permitted route.
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