Sleeper Services Past and Present

[camperdown9]

Hi

Other than the Caledonian Sleeper and the Night Riviera are there any other sleeper services in the UK?

Also in the past what other sleeper routes were there, does anyone know of a list?

Thanks

Alex

 

[Failed Unit]

Pre-electrification of ECML the sleepers went down the East Coast Mainline. You could go to Newcastle by Sleeper - but I can't remember if it was its own train or if it was a call in one of the ones going further north.

Recent history definately remember a train from London Euston - Stranrear via Kilmarnock.

I wouldn't be surprised but can't comment myself if people state we used to have London - Holyhead and Fishgaurd services as well as some Cross Country services. I do remember seeing an overnight Newcastle - Plymouth servce but can't remember if it was just day stock.

 

[DarloRich]

These old threads may be of interest:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28226
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102418
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58928
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72636
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91364

 

[camperdown9]

Thanks both.

My interest in railways is fairy new and am here to learn!

These links are exactly what I need.

Alex

 

[DarloRich]

Thanks both.

My interest in railways is fairy new and am here to learn!

These links are exactly what I need.

Alex

No problems - there may well be more people can add.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There is (as yet) an unwritten book on the development and operation of UK sleeper services , unlike on traincatering , which has been covered.

Uselss fact - only one sleeper train operated in pre WW2 Ireland , Rosslare - Waterford - Cork (I think) ......though they have a new tour train just launched !

 

[Elwyn]

Hi

Other than the Caledonian Sleeper and the Night Riviera are there any other sleeper services in the UK?

Also in the past what other sleeper routes were there, does anyone know of a list?

Thanks

Alex

I got a sleeper from Euston to Barrow in Furness in the 1970s. It arrived about 0400 or something similar.

 

[camperdown9]

I got a sleeper from Euston to Barrow in Furness in the 1970s. It arrived about 0400 or something similar.

Bit off topic you know anything about boat train services from NI to London? My dad remembers getting a boat and train to London in the 1960's but details are limited. Were there sleeper services from Stranraer that connected with the ferry?

 

[30907]

Bit off topic you know anything about boat train services from NI to London? My dad remembers getting a boat and train to London in the 1960's but details are limited. Were there sleeper services from Stranraer that connected with the ferry?

Yes, rerouted via Ayr-Mauchline when the direct route closed, and IIRC then via Troon-Kilmarnock. I remember doing Inverness-Carlisle-Stranraer overnight as part of a Freedom of Scotland in 1973 or so, and I bet I'm not alone in that!
There was also the Heysham-Belfast route overnight with an evening boat train from Euston.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I was a regular on the Sunday Manchester-Euston sleeper in 1989 and 1990. I was living in Manchester at the time and working in London during the week. It let me have a full weekend in Manchester before heading to work on the Monday morning.

 

[bnsf734]

There was a Liverpool and Manchester to Euston service with sleepers which certainly ran during the 1980s. The 2 services combined at Stafford ISTR.

At Nuneaton we always called it the Splitter. I think it was around 2330 off Euston and around 0130 off Nuneaton on the up journey.

The service was popular with MPs if I remember rightly, which is why it lasted so long.

 

[Springs Branch]

Bit off topic you know anything about boat train services from NI to London? My dad remembers getting a boat and train to London in the 1960's but details are limited. Were there sleeper services from Stranraer that connected with the ferry?

As 30907 mentioned, Sealink operated two ferry routes between NI & England/Scotland in the 1960s.
Both had connecting boat trains to/from London Euston.

The Larne/Stranraer route had "daytime" sailings, with the boat train connections running overnight and carrying sleeping cars in each direction.

The Belfast/Heysham route had overnight sailings (cabins available on the ship if you paid extra), with daytime train connections.

It was basically an overnight journey whichever route you took, the choice was whether you wanted to sleep on the ship or the train, and what time you needed to depart in the evening or arrive in the morning.
The Heysham route also had an additional daytime sailing in each direction on summer Saturdays.

The 1969 BR timetable shows the following times:-

1) Larne/Stranraer
1755 dep Belfast York Road (train)
1850 dep Larne Harbour (ship)
2105 arr Stranraer Harbour (ship)
2225 dep Stranraer Harbour (train with sleeper & seated accommodation)
0747 arr London Euston

2040 dep London Euston (train with sleeper & seated accommodation)
0603 arr Stranraer Harbour (train)
0700 dep Stranraer Harbour (ship)
0915 arr Larne Harbour (ship)
1030 arr Belfast York Road (train)


2) Belfast/Heysham
2140 dep Belfast Donegall Quay (ship)
0445 arr Heysham Harbour (ship)
0550 dep Heysham (train - "The Ulster Express" - conveys restaurant car)
1000 arr London Euston

1850 dep London Euston (train - "The Ulster Express" - conveys restaurant car)
2251 arr Heysham (train)
2340 dep Heysham Harbour (ship)
0645 arr Belfast Donegall Quay (ship)

As well as the London boat trains, Heysham sailings also had connecting trains from Manchester Victoria and Leeds (via the Little Northwestern).
The working timetables also show several relief trains to/from London & Birmingham operating on the busier days during summer.

 

[ejstubbs]

I wouldn't be surprised but can't comment myself if people state we used to have London - Holyhead and Fishgaurd services

I have a dim but reliable memory of being woken up at some ungodly hour of the morning in Carmarthen station by a stentorian and persistent platform announcement. That would have been some time in the early to mid 1960s. We'd have been on our way from London to Pembrokeshire.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Pre-electrification of ECML the sleepers went down the East Coast Mainline. You could go to Newcastle by Sleeper - but I can't remember if it was its own train or if it was a call in one of the ones going further north.

Back in the early 80s the sleepers came from Edinburgh and as a shunter in those days we used to attach 3 sleeper cars to the train around 2230ish for London and when the sleeper arrived from London we detached 3 cars from the rear and then shunted them into the bay platform(the one we used is no longer there !)with passengers still on them ! One morning a colleague was doing this shunt and came in a tad too fast and bounced them off the buffers causing a bit of commotion !!

 

[nuneatonmark]

I am almost certain I took a sleeper to Carmarthen about 1981 during an epic Western Region Rover with a schoolmate of mine. We also used the Cornish sleeper too.

 

[David57]

Certainly used Swansea-Paddington in the mid 70's.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bit off topic you know anything about boat train services from NI to London? My dad remembers getting a boat and train to London in the 1960's but details are limited. Were there sleeper services from Stranraer that connected with the ferry?

The Northern Irishman ran via Carlisle to Euston.
Not to forget the Irish Mail to Holyhead (and sometime with ferry connection to Greenore and I think later to Belfast).

One sleeper service often forgotten is Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Birmingham Snow Hill-Shrewsbury-Chester-Birkendead (unofficially The Zulu).
Withdrawn 1967 with WCML electrification.

Another was Manchester-Plymouth via Shrewsbury, Severn Tunnel and Bristol (might have had a Glasgow portion).
Diverted via Birmingham, along with other Marches services, from c1970.

 

[camperdown9]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am almost certain I took a sleeper to Carmarthen about 1981 during an epic Western Region Rover with a schoolmate of mine. We also used the Cornish sleeper too.

As per the 1981-82 Passenger timetable (current bedtime reading!)

Mon-Sat
Carmarthen 2323
London Paddington vacate berths 0730 (0800 on Sundays)

London Paddington 0050
Carmarthen vacate berths 0720

&

Mon only
Carmarthen 0005
London Paddington vacate berths 0730

Sat only
London Paddington 2210
Carmarthen vacate berths 0420 (bit harsh on a Sunday morning!)

Alex
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was a regular on the Sunday Manchester-Euston sleeper in 1989 and 1990. I was living in Manchester at the time and working in London during the week. It let me have a full weekend in Manchester before heading to work on the Monday morning.

There was a Liverpool and Manchester to Euston service with sleepers which certainly ran during the 1980s. The 2 services combined at Stafford ISTR.

At Nuneaton we always called it the Splitter. I think it was around 2330 off Euston and around 0130 off Nuneaton on the up journey.

The service was popular with MPs if I remember rightly, which is why it lasted so long.

At great expense (£14.99) I purchased a 1st June 1981 to 16 May 1982 passenger timetable.

It shows.

Manchester Piccadilly 0027 (0025 Sun)
London Euston vacate berths by 0730 (0830 Sun)

London Euston 0050
Manchester Piccadilly vacate berths 0730 (0800 Sun)

&

Liverpool Lime Street 0030 (0010 Sun)
London Euston vacate berths 0730 (0830 Sun)

London Euston 0050
Liverpool Lime Street vacate berths 0800 (0830 Sun)

As its just a passenger timetable it doesn't detail any stops, or the arrival times or that the Manchester and Liverpool services start and end in London as one train.

Alex

 

[neonison]

In the mid-seventies there was a Kings Cross - Bradford Exchange sleeper that avoided Leeds and did (at that time) PSUL curves Heaton Lodge - Bradley Wood - Greetland -Halifax. I did this simply to do those curves. There was also a Sunderland, Hartlepool & Stockton to Kings Cross sleeper. At that time the only direct train to London.

 

[camperdown9]

Also in the same 1981-82 passenger timetable it details the following service to the ROI.

London Euston 2130 (Sleeper service)
Holyhead 0225
Holyhead 0600 (ferry)
Dun Laoghaire 0930
Dun Laoghaire 1004 (bus)
Dublin Connolly 1030

Dublin Heuston 1905 (bus)
Dun Laoghaire 1955
Dun Laoghaire 2045
Holyhead 0015
Holyhead 0107 (Sleeper service)
London Euston 0618


If I look in the sleeper services section it lists the same train as

London Euston 2130
Holyhead vacate berths by 0730 (0830 on Sun)

Holyhead 0107
London Euston vacate berths by 0730 (0830 on Sun)

It also calls the service the Irish mail!

--------------------------------------------

If I look at services to ROI via Fishguard - Rosslare it doesn't list a sleeper service, but it does list an overnight train.

London Paddington dep 2133
Fishguard Harbour 0210
Fishguard Harbour 0310 (Ferry)
Rosslare Harbour 0650

Rosslare Harbour 2140 (ferry)
Fishguard Harbour 0200
London Paddington 0842

Alex
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks everyone. For the info...please keep posting.

This is great. I never knew that there were so many services!

Alex

 

[sarahj]

Did 3 sleeper trains in total.

1: Sometime around 1975. Newcastle to King X. I was 6 and had a birth to myself with the connecting door open to my mum in the next compartment. Only memory is of me going, 'where are we' all night. Compartment seemed huge, but then I was very little. must have driven my mum mad.

2: Motorail train from Newcastle to Newton Abbott 1980. Don't remember much sleep. Mk1's

3: 1986. Newcastle to King X. Mk3. Was rather pointless, but did it for the hell of it. You were supposed to get a lie in at KingsX, but when we boarded my friend pushed the attendant call button by mistake and our cards were marked. Woken up on arrival and kicked off. I do remember being sat at Darlington for an age.

The Mk1's were basic. If you needed to go at night there was a 'bed pan' which you put into a slot under the sink and tipped it away. Mind the windows did open.

Sleepers elsewhere:

Couchette Calais - Luzern 1978
Sleeper. Nurnburg to Berlin Zoo 1980 (DR Y)
1989
Vienna to Venice T2S (OBB)
Rome to Nice U3 (FS)
Nice to Paris T2 (SNCF). The Blue train
Around 92
Ostend - Basle U3 (first class) SBB
2008
Munich to Cologne CNL. Pollux Reclining seats, https://www.sbb.ch/content/sbb/en/d...1.jpg/1450082159637/Ruhesessel-mit-Leuten.jpg but sat in the restaurant car all night hanging out the window and smoking too many cigs. Watched the shunting at Koblenz as the Munich and Zurich bits were joined up. There was seated accommodation in a bm235 that was attached to the train, but not part of the train. This went as far as Koblenz and those punters were not allowed to use the restaurant/bar car in the CNL section. Great trip

 

[Spamcan81]

The Northern Irishman ran via Carlisle to Euston.
Not to forget the Irish Mail to Holyhead (and sometime with ferry connection to Greenore and I think later to Belfast).

One sleeper service often forgotten is Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Birmingham Snow Hill-Shrewsbury-Chester-Birkendead (unofficially The Zulu).
Withdrawn 1967 with WCML electrification.

Another was Manchester-Plymouth via Shrewsbury, Severn Tunnel and Bristol (might have had a Glasgow portion).
Diverted via Birmingham, along with other Marches services, from c1970.

I did a Plymouth - Glasgow sleeper from Taunton c.1989. After a few pints of Guinness I fell asleep and the next thing i knew, we were passing Carstairs.

 

[camperdown9]

The Mk1's were basic. If you needed to go at night there was a 'bed pan' which you put into a slot under the sink and tipped it away. Mind the windows did open.

Thanks for the info.

Any ideas where I might find photos of the interiors of sleeper carriages?

 

[Spamcan81]

In the 70s I did a KGX - Leeds sleeper. Got turfed out quite early so had the pleasure of sharing the waiting room with the local winos. Took the return working as well. Three carriages in a bay platform they were shunted, none to gently on this occasion, on to the rear of a working from farther north.

 

[Daz28]

With all of the sleeper services running in the good old days, there must have been a lot of platforms in the London termini filled with sleepers every morning.

 

[alastair]

Pre-electrification of ECML the sleepers went down the East Coast Mainline. You could go to Newcastle by Sleeper - but I can't remember if it was its own train or if it was a call in one of the ones going further north.

Recent history definately remember a train from London Euston - Stranrear via Kilmarnock.

I wouldn't be surprised but can't comment myself if people state we used to have London - Holyhead and Fishgaurd services as well as some Cross Country services. I do remember seeing an overnight Newcastle - Plymouth servce but can't remember if it was just day stock.

In the early 70's there was a sleeper only train from Newcastle to Kings Cross,I seem to recall it even had a name - The Tynesider. There was also a sleeper from Preston to Euston which you could join in a bay platform at Preston from 2200. The 2 sleeping cars were attached to another train around 0330 and arrived Euston around 0630.

 

[30907]

I have a dim but reliable memory of being woken up at some ungodly hour of the morning in Carmarthen station by a stentorian and persistent platform announcement. That would have been some time in the early to mid 1960s. We'd have been on our way from London to Pembrokeshire.

IIRC the sleeper ran to Milford Haven, perhaps Neyland before that, but not Pembroke or Fishguard.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

IIRC the sll per ran to Milford Haven, perhaps Neyland before that, but not Pembroke or Fishguard.

Milford Haven to be sure ...only a couple of vehicles too..

 

[6Gman]

With all of the sleeper services running in the good old days, there must have been a lot of platforms in the London termini filled with sleepers every morning.

There were! But there were fewer early business trains into London in those days.

 

[neonison]

During the late 70's there was a reworking of Kings Cross called "clearing the throat". One got turfed out of one's sleeper at 6 am. but got a voucher for a superb breakfast at the Great Northern Hotel.