• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

signals on platforms

Status
Not open for further replies.

ess

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2010
Messages
551
at hayes and harlington platform 3 SN287 blinds passengers when walking down the platform towards the exit. does that happen anywhere else?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,753
Location
Essex
I'm afraid Network Rail will likely consider the signal to be more important than the momentary blinding of passengers.
 

John55

Member
Joined
24 Jun 2011
Messages
800
Location
South East
I'm afraid Network Rail will likely consider the signal to be more important than the momentary blinding of passengers.

I'm very pleased Network Rail will likely consider the signal to be more important than the momentary blinding of passengers.
 

142094

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Messages
8,789
Location
Newcastle
How does it blind people (guessing it is a newer type signal and is positioned quite low?).
 

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,047
Location
St Albans
Looking at the GeoGraph website and Google I assume that this signal is at or under the road overbridge which probably means the signal is a bit lower than usual?
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,246
Location
Yorkshire
I guess these are LED signals (sorry, not looked at any photos) - in which case I know with traffic lights, they can be quite dazzling at times, since they are seemingly of a much higher intensity to conventional filament bulbs.

As the others have said though, the signal sighting and such is probably of more concern to the railway than a passenger getting an eyeful of red/yellow/green as they walk down the platform. Is there really no way to avoid looking directly at it whilst walking down the platform, maybe by diverting ones gaze just to the side of it (I know at LED traffic lights by night I can't look at them for too long, and at that, you are not head onto them either, in fact, actually at quite an angle from them)
 
Last edited:

Eagle

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2011
Messages
7,106
Location
Leamingrad / Blanfrancisco
This one?

640px-Hayes_%26_Harlington_stn_slow_platforms_looking_west2.JPG


Can't see it as being much of a problem as you don't have to gaze into it or anything to move around the platform.
 

PaxVobiscum

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
2,395
Location
Glasgow
at hayes and harlington platform 3 SN287 blinds passengers when walking down the platform towards the exit. does that happen anywhere else?

I thought for a moment you were going to say "at Hayes and Harlington hurricanes hardly ever happen."

Just ignore me.
 

Matt Taylor

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2008
Messages
2,339
Location
Portsmouth
I've used that platform and have never been blinded by the signal, if it were too bright it could be a safety hazard to drivers as they approach it too although I'm not aware of it being a hazard as such.
 

deltic1989

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2010
Messages
1,483
Location
Nottingham
I thought for a moment you were going to say "at Hayes and Harlington hurricanes hardly ever happen."

Just ignore me.


Your coat sir? :D

There is a signal in a similar situation at the end of platform 6 at Nottingham, although from looking at that picture the one I'm on about may be further under its bridge, whilst it is rather bright I wouldnt say it was blindingly so. And in any event there are plenty of other ways to look other than directly at the signal.
 

merlodlliw

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
5,852
Location
Wrexham/ Denbighshire /Flintshire triangle
On another matter, we have traffic lights on what is known as the Ruthin Turn off in Wrexham A525, some of these have had a kind of blinkers attached facing down due to the intensity of the light.
These are led & my guess is the power etc, could be changed for the situation if required.
I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.

just my opinion/
 

ACE1888

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2011
Messages
823
Location
Penzance, Cornwall
Always safety first, but down here in Cornwall we still have plenty of semaphore's on our platforms, adds to the atmosphere down here ;)
 

boing_uk

Member
Joined
18 May 2009
Messages
619
Location
Blackburn
On another matter, we have traffic lights on what is known as the Ruthin Turn off in Wrexham A525, some of these have had a kind of blinkers attached facing down due to the intensity of the light.
These are led & my guess is the power etc, could be changed for the situation if required.
I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.

just my opinion/

They are not because of the light output. Louvres are fitted because it has been desirable to restrict the visibility of the signal to either a certain direction or distance from the signal.
 

merlodlliw

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
5,852
Location
Wrexham/ Denbighshire /Flintshire triangle
Always safety first, but down here in Cornwall we still have plenty of semaphore's on our platforms, adds to the atmosphere down here ;)

Real signals
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They are not because of the light output. Louvres are fitted because it has been desirable to restrict the visibility of the signal to either a certain direction or distance from the signal.

OK, thanks for the opinion.

Bob
 
Last edited:

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.

What people don't often consider is that signals will change their apparent intensity depending on the intensity of the ambient light. What may be dazzling at night will probably be quite comfortable during the day.

Furthermore, it's worth remembering that some signals/traffic lights may at some point during the day have strong sunlight shining upon them, making them harder to see and as such requiring them to be more intense. If I remember rightly, this caused a major accident on the GWML.

Just my two pence..
 

Railsigns

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2010
Messages
2,488
And they are the right* quadrant.

*GWR used lower quadrant signals.

All the British railway companies used lower quadrant signals to begin with.

Only the GWR was stubborn/stupid enough to stick with them after all the others had recognised the benefits of changing to upper quadrant signals.

This "GWR was right and everyone else was wrong" nonsense becomes quite tiresome when you've heard it repeated often enough.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
All the British railway companies used lower quadrant signals to begin with.
I was not saying they never did just that the GWR continued to use them. Sorry this was not clear.

This "GWR was right and everyone else was wrong" nonsense becomes quite tiresome when you've heard it repeated often enough.
It's not nonsense to everyone.
 
Last edited:

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,753
Location
Essex
What controls did the GWR have to prevent a lower quadrant signal showing a false clear if the wire snapped?
 

Railsigns

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2010
Messages
2,488
What controls did the GWR have to prevent a lower quadrant signal showing a false clear if the wire snapped?

A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
 
Last edited:

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,753
Location
Essex
A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.

Thanks Railsigns. So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure? It doesn't sound likely, but did the GWR realise the risk and decided it was too small or did they go ahead regardless?
 

Railsigns

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2010
Messages
2,488
So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure?
Exactly. If you can get hold of the IRSE Proceedings for the 1920s period, you can read all the arguments that were made for (and against!) adopting UQ signals in this country.


It doesn't sound likely, but did the GWR realise the risk and decided it was too small or did they go ahead regardless?
Without checking, I can't recall a specific reason why the GWR stuck with LQ, but it may be recorded in those discussions or in one of the more recent signalling books.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure?
Thinking about it, that is probably unlikely. The danger is when the LQ arm becomes disconnected from the rod connecting it to the counterweight and the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeds the weight of the heavy spectacle plate on the opposite side of the spindle.
 

transmanche

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
6,018
A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
As proved by Henry the Green Engine in 'The Flying Kipper'.

I'll get my wagon...
 
Joined
19 May 2010
Messages
505
Location
West Drayton
This one?

640px-Hayes_%26_Harlington_stn_slow_platforms_looking_west2.JPG


Can't see it as being much of a problem as you don't have to gaze into it or anything to move around the platform.

That picture nicely demonstrates how much clearer LED signals are compared their filament bulb counterparts. Compare SN287 to SN289 on the opposite platform!

Referring to the OP, I think they might be referring to the junction indicator illuminating when a Heathrow Connect train is coming into the platform, with its bright white lights. The signal head is on the platform so I can understand that the intensity of the light from a signal head designed to be seen from a distance could be a bit full on to those who are sensitive to light standing on the platform. However the public are free to move away from the signal if it's an issue for them!

As a driver I have no issues with blinding from this signal. In fact despite all the clutter of the station SN287 can be seen very well on the approach to Hayes and the critical junction beyond. It ain't broke, don't try to fix it! :)
 

Railsigns

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2010
Messages
2,488
That picture nicely demonstrates how much clearer LED signals are compared their filament bulb counterparts. Compare SN287 to SN289 on the opposite platform!

I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.
 
Joined
19 May 2010
Messages
505
Location
West Drayton
I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.

Not necessarily. Coming the other way into Hayes (on the up) you're not directly looking directly into the beam of any particular signal out of SN300 / SN298 / SN290. Two of those signals are LED and one is still bulbs. Guess which one is more difficult to spot....
 

DaveNewcastle

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2007
Messages
7,387
Location
Newcastle (unless I'm out)
A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
I'm reminded of the Abbots Ripton disaster of 1876 involving 3 trains in very heavy snow fall.
As I understood it, there were several contributory factors, but one was the weight of the snow a the signal arm (lower quadrant) which failed to return fully to danger and to position the red lens in front of the lamp.
There were as many recommendations as causes, but one outcome was that the Company (the Great Northern Railway) introduced signals whose pivoting point was closer to the signal's centre of gravity, and therefore the accumulation of ice and snow would not be likely to tip the balance in one direction any more than the other.

All way off topic, sorry!
 

Harbon 1

Member
Joined
30 Apr 2011
Messages
1,020
Location
Burton on Trent
As proved by Henry the Green Engine in 'The Flying Kipper'.

I'll get my wagon...

I was thinking exactly the same :lol:

Railsigns said:
I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.

If you visit any station with LEDs, you can clearly see the aspects of signals across the tracks eg. at Lincoln, as demonstrated by this picture... (not great quality as it was my old camera that this was taken with)
picture.php


Plus they are easily told apart from the massive difference in lens size.
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,457
Location
Somewhere
LED signals are funny things. They are good in day light but come night time they are too bright to the degree of dazzling. Also in fog they seem to have little penetration compared to filament bulbs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top