So charging anything other than half the adult fare for the journey cannot be done.3. A fee not exceeding half the adult fare for your journey is charged for:
• each additional item in excess of a passenger’s free allowance; and • any item with dimensions exceeding 90 x 70 x 30 cm.
ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS FOR LUGGAGE, ARTICLES, ANIMALS AND CYCLES
Conveyance of Luggage and Articles in Passenger Accommodation
1. Passenger accommodation in these Conditions means the parts of trains with seats
or sleeper berths including luggage stowage areas above, beneath and behind seats
and adjacent to doorways.
2.
Condition 46 allows you to take small items of Luggage and Articles into the
passenger accommodation of a train. Small items are considered to be those with
dimensions not exceeding 90 x 70 x 30 cm with a weight not exceeding 50kg. Each
passenger (aged 5 years or more) may take three small items into a train free of
charge, however, the dimensions of only two of these items may exceed 55 x 40 x 20 cm.
21...
...
3. A fee not exceeding half the adult fare for your journey is charged for:
each additional item in excess of a passengers free allowance; and
any item with dimensions exceeding 90 x 70 x 30 cm.
4. A Train Company may refuse to accept Luggage or Articles in passenger
accommodation if any of the following apply:
the restrictions listed in Condition 49 apply;
the item would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
the dimensions of the item exceed 100 x 100 x 100 cm; or
in the opinion of the Train Companys staff, the item is only suitable to be
conveyed in a luggage van.
5. For wheelchairs please refer to the table Luggage and Miscellaneous Articles.
Nrcoc:
So charging anything other than half the adult fare for the journey cannot be done.
Edit: Why is N R C O C changed to Nrcoc?
If they refused to comply then I don't see why they couldn't be asked to leave the train.
The charges in the NRCoC do not entitle the passenger to refuse to give up a seat conveying any such item.
There will be an anti-shouting mechanism in the forum software, that prevents people posting words with all capitals.
You're quite correct, that the reference to the fare is undefined.. . . .
Now, whether it's half the cost of the fare the passenger has paid or whether it's half the cost of a standard ticket is debatable.
Its my experience that large items may sometimes be carried in the van with no fee being charged if it helps to keep the passenger accomodation clear.Items conveyed for a fee
Fee not exceeding half the adult fare for the journey subject to a maximum charge of £5.00 single or £10.00 return:
In passenger accommodation:
• each additional item in excess of a passenger’s free allowance
• any item with dimensions exceeding 90 x 70 x 30 cm and with maximum dimensions of 100 x 100 x 100 cm and a weight not exceeding 50kg.
• Musical instruments with dimensions not exceeding 100 x 100 x 100 cm and the weight not exceeding 50kg
In luggage van:
• Items of Luggage or Articles with maximum dimensions of 150 x 150 x 100 cm and a weight not exceeding 75kg.
• Golf Equipment
• Musical instruments with dimensions not exceeding 150 x 150 x 100 cm and the weight not exceeding 75kg.
• Skis and ski-boards
Oh, really?There will be an anti-shouting mechanism in the forum software, that prevents people posting words with all capitals.
That wasn't what was asked though. The guard can ask someone to leave the train, if he has a genuine belief he is acting in the interests of safety, and to remain on the train would be a criminal offence.
From my reading of the Conditions of Carriage, a full single fare cannot be legitimately asked for for a piece of luggage on the seat.
Now, whether it's half the cost of the fare the passenger has paid or whether it's half the cost of a standard ticket is debatable.
so who knows.3.A fee not exceeding half the adult fare for your journey is charged for:
• the item would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors;
Perhaps. The Regulations from about 170 years ago were much more clearly focussed on the carriage of goods, freight (coal in particular), produce and livestock. There were elaborate tariffs governing their carriage, as well as passenger's luggage, compartments and of course, classes.This appears to be an extension of the old rule relating to "exclusive use" of a compartment (remember those?), when you could pay six times the appropriate fare to get a compo all to yourself.
Some of those 19th C. Acts are still current statutes, though having recently studied another Clause from the period, it seems that the Act hasn't been repealled, but the legal context which would be necessary for a Prosecution, has moved on, rendering the Clause sterile.As to whether it's enforceable, I couldn't say . . .
Thanks. I thought he probably couldn't threaten what he actually said, but was unsure what the NRCoC would say. It didn't seem right TBF, and if he's threatening something unenforceable he's going beyond his remit. He might as well threaten to shoot someone who refused to move a bag; it'd be about as legal but still an effective deterrent
If a child fare is the appropriate sanction and the offending passenger was a Family Railcard holder would he be able to get the Railcard discount for the bag?
Thanks. I thought he probably couldn't threaten what he actually said, but was unsure what the NRCoC would say. It didn't seem right TBF, and if he's threatening something unenforceable he's going beyond his remit. He might as well threaten to shoot someone who refused to move a bag; it'd be about as legal but still an effective deterrent
If a child fare is the appropriate sanction and the offending passenger was a Family Railcard holder would he be able to get the Railcard discount for the bag?
I would suggest that 90% of passengers would support what was being said.
Irrelevant to whether it's correct.
You don't seem to appreciate this, and are concerning yourself only with whether the guard is 100% correct in his announcement or not.
What if your "bag" happens to be a cat carrier with a sensitive pedigree moggy in it? Agreed it should not take up a seat that is needed by another passenger, but how about if you decide to stand yourself, beside your seat, so that your pet can occupy the seat you are entitled to for yourself?
I'd say one fare paying passenger is allowed one seat, and it's up to them what they do with it (within reason obviously).
Except for dogs, animals must be conveyed in a fully enclosed basket or pet carrier
designed for this purpose with dimensions not exceeding 85 x 60 x 60 cm. Baskets
and pet carriers must be large enough to allow the animal to stand and lie down in
comfort. Animals which are too large for a basket or pet carrier with dimensions 85 x
60 x 60 cm may not be conveyed by train
This appears to be an extension of the old rule relating to "exclusive use" of a compartment (remember those?), when you could pay six times the appropriate fare to get a compo all to yourself.