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Blackpool Transport to commence running trams Monday 19th March?

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WatcherZero

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Was just on North West Tonight, we are not talking about a little sand in between the rails here, we are talking about large sand banks created by strong winds!
 
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Sheepy1209

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Looking at the picture on the Blackpool Gazette site, there are sand banks right across the road - not something that usually happens here. My theory is they were caught out by north-easterly gales, a direction that's unusual here.

That and the rushed testing along this stretch, as it was only reopened a few days ago - so no chance for these or similar conditions to present themselves.

There were plenty of other indicators of things being rushed - e.g. some tram stops were still fenced off this morning, even though the line was open. [EDIT: Website now says these stops are closed because work isn't finished - which I think is due to the last-minute H&S imposition of a flat 'level-crossing' surface between the platforms. Barmy]

To be more positive - I went to work and back on the tram (and bus) today and the journey home was impressive, with a good level of ridership even beyond the core 'tourist' area. It felt as if the service had been running for years, very ordinary in fact. These new trams are a dramatic improvement on the high-floor, slow-loading Centenary cars that previously provided the core Fleetwood - Starr Gate service.

We'll see how it goes over Easter - with a 20-minute headway (30 on Easter Sunday!) capacity could be an issue.
 
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WatcherZero

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We'll see how it goes over Easter - with a 20-minute headway (30 on Easter Sunday!) capacity could be an issue.

Thats amazing considering the last couple of years. Just have to hope the passengers stay after the first month.
 

WestCoast

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Thats amazing considering the last couple of years. Just have to hope the passengers stay after the first month.

I think there has been a lot of doom mongering about the future viability of the service, but demand for the parallel bus service (Line 1) has seemingly remained high and now there is nothing to stop those passengers turning to the trams (frequent, low floor and fares in line with the bus/concession passes accepted). The trams were slower and less reliable before, and now they are not. There's a lot of (mainly but not exclusively older) people in Bispham, Cleveleys and Fleetwood who rely on public transport to get between those place and south to Blackpool.

I don't think getting people onboard will be problem, revenue might be though as I imagine a relatively sizable percentage of the ridership will use be using the free passes.
 
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Whistler40145

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Been on a Tram from Fleetwood to Cleveleys and it was full. I get the feeling that the new Trams could be the best thing that has happened.

It certainly felt nice and smooth & was more comfortable than the Heritage fleet or any Bus.

I would certainly travel on the Trams again.


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I think there has been a lot of doom mongering about the future viability of the service, but demand for the parallel bus service (Line 1) has seemingly remained high and now there is nothing to stop those passengers turning to the trams (frequent, low floor and fares in line with the bus/concession passes accepted). The trams were slower and less reliable before, and now they are not. There's a lot of (mainly but not exclusively older) people in Bispham, Cleveleys and Fleetwood who rely on public transport to get between those place and south to Blackpool.

I don't think getting people onboard will be problem, revenue might be though as I imagine a relatively sizable percentage of the ridership will use be using the free passes.

Around 6pm on Wednesday, the No 1 was virtually full and standing room only on the LRV. The bus was delayed for 5-10 minutes because the driver had to take a lot of fares, whereas the LRV's have conductors.
No 1 has far more stops! LRT stops can be at least a 6 minute walk for even an able bodied person.
The LRT system was working efficiency Wed evening, and passengers seemed happy with the service. Because the depot is relocated at Star Gate, there is now a 'new' late service - Rigby Road to Depot at Star G.
The £3.50 day saver bought at paypoint shops is accepted on LRV's and BTS buses. :D
(£4.50 bought on bus / LRV)
The Winter service will have its limitations on the Promenade section with mainly empty hotels one side, and only fish on the other! Having a conductor will greatly add to running costs.
 

WestCoast

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Just a tip for anyone thinking of having a ride on the new trams this month. There's two vouchers on page 5 of the Blackpool Council newsletter and each voucher entitles you to buy a return ticket between any two points on the network for just £1. It's valid up to the 27th April, but excludes this Easter Weekend.
 

redthunder

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Well spent yesterday on the new trams, and Im afraid to say it was a complete shambles!!!!!!

The main epic centre of the problems are around Fleetwood
Between Fishermans Walk & Fleetwood Ferry only 1 tram is able to be between those stops (in either direction) at any time, this is due to a power generator not being completed and can only handle 1 new tram at a time, so they have to pick up a yellow baton type object at the stop, if its not there than theres another tram in fleetwood!!!!
On a 20 minute frequency, there were gaps in the service of in some cases more than an hour, there were no trial runs before the timetable was issued
Plus there was a Broken Down "Heritage" tram in Bispham causing delays
Also was chatting to some of the conductors, they are running on 40 minute breaks only at Starr Gate (the new depot) so if that tram comes back 15 minutes late, there will either be a tram stranded at Starr Gate with no crew or a whole Fleetwood trip and back has to be covered, all in all A MESS!!!!!!!
 

WestCoast

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Doesn't surprise me unfortunately, timetabling on their buses hasn't been BT's strong point in recent years either - the various bus routes between Blackpool and Fleetwood were especially bad for bunching and lateness.

Although there are always going to be teething problems, so hopefully they can resolve issues before the main summer season!

The power generator thing was well known actually - if I was them I'd have kept Fisherman's Walk to Fleetwood Ferry shut for the now.
 

Sheepy1209

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The service was usually a shambles before the upgrade, so it looks like very little has changed.

If they can't fix basic problems of trams not turning up, being full, or being so far off schedule that you don't know whether they're on time or not, then they might as well forget any hope of this being anything other than a seasonal service.

The only saving grace is that the number 1 bus is even worse!

I'd welcome something like a split route, such as Fleetwood - North Pier overlapping with a Starr Gate to Bispham. It would slow down my commute as I need to connect with buses to St Annes, but it might be possible to at least run a morning through service and split it later.

If they were to add the link to Blackpool North maybe that would be a natural interchange point.

Those of us living north of Blackpool, especially with journeys to and from Fleetwood, haven't thought of the trams as a serious public transport option for a long time. If BTS think it's OK to turn trams round short just to keep the promenade service moving then they might as well give up now. It shows they don't value those customers who might sustain a year-round service.

I dearly want it to work, but I only need to be left stranded at Anchorsholme Lane a couple of times to give up on it. But that won't happen, because the stop's not even ready yet!

Not a good start.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I was in Blackpool today. Even with heritage stock running the stations were crowded, notably the ones around Tower but as for the trams themselves...
It looks like there is much more opportunity for more tram services and Blackpool Transport need to grasp that opportunity and give people more frequent and better rides.
 
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Originally they announced they were going to run a 10 minute service!!
The timetable at Fleetwood should have been modified until the substation is up & running. Eg removing the 5 minute wait at Fleetwood Ferry, instead pause at Fishermans Walk on the return.
 

pemma

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-17628035

Blackpool now investigating using the existing tram rails buried in the road.

Wonder how many other cities have such buried rails.

I don't know the answer to your query but I know in Cheshire that a number of roads have tarmac placed over cobbled streets because they didn't bother digging up the cobbles first so I imagine it's the same with tram rails.
 

Whistler40145

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I am Blackpool born a bred. Although not old enough to remember the lines that are closed, but do know that from Talbot Square by North Pier, the lines are still under the road surface & go up Talbot Road towards Blackpool North & then along Dickson Road to Gynn Square on the Promenade. This should be one line for possible reopening. Another route to consider is the Marton route down Church Street, Whitegate Drive & Waterloo Road.


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driver9000

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Another route to consider is the Marton route down Church Street, Whitegate Drive & Waterloo Road.

I remember several years ago when Adbingdon Street was dug up tram rails were revealed. Did these provide a connection from Talbot Road to the Marton route via Church Street?

I'm not sure if the rails were removed or if they were simply covered back over.
 

Whistler40145

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The Conductor on my journey from Fleetwood to Cleveleys went out of his way to be helpful, one family thought they had to pay for each individual, but he advised to get a day ticket, so you could get better value for your money & seemed to be enjoying his job.

It is completely different with some Bus Drivers, who think they are doing you a favour & aren't always friendly.



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Whistler40145

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yes they did driver9000. I think the line branched off at Talbot Square, up Clifton Street, right onto Abingdon Street & down Church Street.

Also, I think the amount of work required to remove the tracks wasn't cost effective, so they are still there.


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WestCoast

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I remember several years ago when Adbingdon Street was dug up tram rails were revealed. Did these provide a connection from Talbot Road to the Marton route via Church Street?

I'm not sure if the rails were removed or if they were simply covered back over.

I remember this as well. I am sure Abingdon Street and Church Street were dug up a few times in recent years and the rails made an appearance at least once.

Here's a picture I found (not mine) - there's a few more in that set.
 
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There is talk of a couple LRV's that are off the road due to 'flat tyres' which has been caused by skidding. These new vehicles have solid wheels (the old trams had tyres) and will need the wheels replaced. Hopefully the 'state of the art' maintenance facilities include the machinery / lathe to turn /reface the wheels!
An interesting article on philtheone.
http://philtheone.com/2012/04/carneskys-ghost-train-more-profitable-than-new-blackpool-trams/
Gazette article
Passengers furious as station shuts – days after supertram launch
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/c...n-shuts-days-after-supertram-launch-1-4431444

imo they should have chosen a fully seated vehicle. With long journeys, a high number of unprotected level crossings etc, it would be not only be more comfortable, but far safer.
 

WestCoast

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There seems to be a lot of moaning going on - which doesn't surprise me. That blog post doesn't really grasp the fact that the tram network would never have achieved funding to expand the network to its former glory. It doesn't work like that in this country and that I'm afraid is down to central government policy, I am sure the local councils on the Fylde would have no objections to a proper tram network (although some residents would I am sure!). Oh, and the author doesn't really understand Metrolink in Greater Manchester, which has faced major criticism as much of the network is former BR/NR lines!

As for the seating issue, well, the Centenary Cars only seated 36, the balloons seat 74-94. The new trams seat 74, so it's hardy that much of a downgrade!
 
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I would thought it would have better to have had a route leaving the Promenade just after the Tower and running down Central Drive terminating initially at the industrial estate (near Morrisons) It could do with linking car parking also.
The disused tram tracks were not 'mothballed' & I would assume gave the utility companies a nice empty area in the road to lay their services! Moving these is mega expensive!! Using 50 year old tracks...:lol:

If there is still empty space in the road there could be possibilities.
There is to be a feasibility study for a route to North Station.
Atm it is very poorly served by buses. Why? Then go to the huge expense of a tramway. BTS should link eg the No 11 bus now!

Gazette, memory lane hidden tram tracks.
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/lifestyle/memory-lane/memory-lane-hidden-tram-tracks-1-4265134
 
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Thanks for the video, WatcherZero.

Re seating, if they have people standing the conductors job is nearly impossible!!

Another Gazette article!
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/local/free-fares-chaos-on-trams-1-4439440
They are bound to get teething problems! Ticket machines won't come cheap though!
There is one other major niggle for me, is every time the promenade is packed, the System will close.......just when we really need it, and doing the job a LRT system is designed for!!
eg Illuminations Switch on, festival events, eg John Barrowman 23rd June etc.
 

WestCoast

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Some of the Gazette commentators don't know what they're talking about - but I'm afraid that's nothing new.

Firstly, there are three other tram networks in the UK that have conductors!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Re seating, if they have people standing the conductors job is nearly impossible!!

Modern European trams aren't really designed for roaming conductors, it's quite rare for them to operate like that. However, to be fair, there are three other tram networks that operate like Blackpool across the country, it's not exactly unprecedented. They could copy what Nottingham and Sheffield do by putting 2 conductors on busy trams (like the Balloons!) and by having someone selling tickets at the busiest stops.

Ticket machines are much more expensive that many realise, and they need to be maintained and emptied on a regular basis. They are also vulnerable to vandalism. With other rapid transit networks (non National Rail), it's one or the other, meaning that it's conductors OR tickets machines, you don't get both!
 
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WatcherZero

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Nottingham no longer have conductors. That leaves just Blackpool and Sheffield.
 
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