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Services advertised with a pretend destination

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reb0118

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At one time the Edinburgh to Glasgow Central via Shotts stoppers were shown as Cambuslang or Slateford terminators.

There also used to be an 11:40 Edinburgh to Aberdeen via Inverness service. My claim to fame is that I got the destination shown at Edinburgh changed to Keith. It took some doing because I was just a CO 2 at the time but my arguments were as follows:-

1) Passengers with open tickets but booked on the 12:10 Aberdeen were asking if they could travel on the 11:40 as they had arrived at the station a bit earlier and were being told yes by station staff. Some did not realise they were on the wrong train until after Pitlochry!

2) Passengers travelling to Keith or stations between Inverness & Keith were quicker travelling on the 11:40 but if they were travelling to Insch or stations between Insch & Aberdeen they were quicker to travel on the 12:10 Aberdeen train and change there
 
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LE Greys

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I remember back in 2003 I travelled on a 455 for the first time to Teddington thinking that there was a bay platform to scratch off, not knowing Waterloo loopers exist...:oops:

Ealing Broadway is advertised to stopper Turbo's to Paddington, Twyford to Reading locals and Radley for Oxfords. Though didn't there used to be services that actually terminated at Twyford?

Heathrow Connect used to show 'Hayes and Harlington' then in small text 'continues to Heathrow Airport T1,2,3' (or something like that), now I see it reads Heathrow Airport T1&3, then in small text 'this is NOT the Express service'

I wonder why some stoppers need to advertise the stop before, if I saw one that list one or two stations over 5 million stations, I'd guess the shorter one is faster...depends what people make it out to be I guess

I thought that BAA insisted on it because they make more money out of an Express passenger than one on a Connect.
 
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I noticed a few days ago at Southampton Central, the Southern service to London shows on the main concourse departure board as terminating at "Horsham", and then below that "London Victoria service"
 

telstarbox

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And at Manchester Piccadilly, the stopper to Sheffield is shown as "Local Stopping Service" as it's quicker to get TPE or EMT; and vice versa at Sheffield.
 

jopsuk

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Not your bad at all dunderhead. There are four Cambridge to kings cross off-peak (7 days a week) two non-stop, one semi fast (class 1) and one slow (class 2).

It is subjective as to whether the objective of these pretend destinations is to denote a slow train or show the furthest place that that train is the fastest train to.

It's the latter. The semi-fast is shown as "Kings Cross" as the non-stop behind it won't overtake it. The slow is shown as "Finsbury Park" as the non-stop behind it will pass it.

Also, there's only one non-stop per hour on Sundays
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder why some stoppers need to advertise the stop before, if I saw one that list one or two stations over 5 million stations, I'd guess the shorter one is faster...depends what people make it out to be I guess

A lot of people that are going to the end-destination of the service will only check the "summary" departure screens, especially somewhere like Cambridge- they'll check the screen in the ticket hall and go straight to the platform, not bothering to look at the screens listing calling points (no need, is there?).
 

tbtc

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And at Manchester Piccadilly, the stopper to Sheffield is shown as "Local Stopping Service" as it's quicker to get TPE or EMT; and vice versa at Sheffield.

Likewise at the Sheffield end. However the Northern service isn't overtaken en route, so it is faster to board it than to wait for the next scheduled TPE/ EMT service
 

Dunderhead

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I noticed a few days ago at Southampton Central, the Southern service to London shows on the main concourse departure board as terminating at "Horsham", and then below that "London Victoria service"

I suppose that makes good sense as anyone who decides it's a good idea to use that train to get to London is likely to end up feeling rather sorry for themselves (unless they have a dirt cheap Southern-only advance...)

I've noticed that the live departure boards on the Network Rail website for their own stations (e.g. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/867.aspx) show the departures exactly as they would be shown at the station (unlike the NRE site), but unfortunately this doesn't seem to be available for Waterloo where this would perhaps be most interesting for the topic of this thread!
 

150222

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So how come a 172 operates an Aylesbury if they don't have tripcocks?
 

OxtedL

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So how come a 172 operates an Aylesbury if they don't have tripcocks?

You may have noted that it has already been said (in the very post you originally quoted) that they are routed via Monks Risborough and the Main line.
 

150222

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You may have noted that it has already been said (in the very post you originally quoted) that they are routed via Monks Risborough and the Main line.

Oh yeah, didn't see that bit, sorry.
 

W-on-Sea

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c2c services coast-bound via the loop are usually shown (off-peak) on the boards at Fenchurch Street, Limehouse and sometimes West Ham, Barking and Upminster as terminating at Stanford-le-Hope (although in general they continue to Southend Central, or occasionally just Pitsea, or all the way thru to Shoebury).

Makes sense most of the time - but less so on some occasions in the late evening, or at any time on Sunday, when the 1/2 hourly frequency on the main line means you'll still arrive at stations between Pitsea and Southend Central four minutes earlier by getting a loop service if its the next one to leave.
 

ushawk

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Used to happen at Tonbridge where trains would split into a fast/slow portion and the fast called at Ashford first. When the slow terminated at Ashford it would be advertised "Pluckley" so Ashford passengers got the fast portion.

Similarly with trains splitting at Ashford and both halves going different routes to Ramsgate, the portion via Canterbury would be "Ramsgate" and the slower portion via Dover would be "Sandwich".

Southern do that for 1 journey from Victoria to Brighton, which carries 2 portions from Brighton which divides at Haywards Heath. Front section is advertised to Brighton (and runs fast), rear section is advertised for Preston Park and calls at all stations.

Southeastern do it for a Hastings service which divides at Tunbridge Wells, front section only calls at main stations to Hastings, and is shown as Hastings, and the rear section calls at all stations and is shown as West St Leonards.
 

swt_passenger

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I suppose that makes good sense as anyone who decides it's a good idea to use that train to get to London is likely to end up feeling rather sorry for themselves (unless they have a dirt cheap Southern-only advance...)

Horsham sometimes comes up as a glitch when there are late running problems, it's because of the join en route. The train that leaves Southampton will be the rear portion of the combined train at Horsham, (the front portion is the stopper from Bognor Regis so its train ID is used to Victoria).

London Victoria is the destination displayed on the PIS at Southampton when things are working normally.
 

telstarbox

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Likewise at the Sheffield end. However the Northern service isn't overtaken en route, so it is faster to board it than to wait for the next scheduled TPE/ EMT service

It is overtaken en route - the Northern services go via New Mills Central, the TPE/EMT services go via Stockport and arrive at Piccadilly first.
 

pemma

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It is overtaken en route - the Northern services go via New Mills Central, the TPE/EMT services go via Stockport and arrive at Piccadilly first.

Only a few trains are overtaken though e.g. the 07:08 Manchester-Sheffield service does get overtaken by the 07:20 TPE service. The standard pattern for the stopper sees it departs a couple of minutes after an express meaning it doesn't get overtaken.
 

trentside

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The local service to Doncaster from Peterborough always used to be shown as Gainsborough, not sure if it still is or what they display the services going to Newark Northgate (via Lincoln)

At Doncaster it can be confusing as both Northern an EMT services are displayed as Lincoln, where the Northern one should maybe be Worksop! I suspect you can't use a Doncaster - Lincoln ticket on the Northern service!

The Peterborough - Lincoln - Doncaster services are still advertised as going to Gainsborough Lea Road at Peterborough. Personally, I think it would make more sense to just advertise it as a Lincoln train - the full list of stopping points is announced on the train, I think the journey takes 2hrs 30mins.

I've never had a problem using a Doncaster to Lincoln ticket on the Sheffield service. I've also used a Leeds - Lincoln ticket when the EMT direct service was cancelled, again without issue. I've also encountered people who boarded the EMT service thinking it was the train to Sheffield.
 

JoeGJ1984

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I've also done what has been referred to on here before as the "West Yorkshire Grand Tour" - it goes from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate but goes round the houses, going via Bradford Interchange (reverses), Halifax, Huddersfield (reverses again) and Wakefield Kirkgate (another reversal). It is described on the boards at Leeds as going to Brighouse (I think).

I wonder if any confusion is caused by this practice (generally, not necessarily on the above service), particularly people who find their train's final destination so they can see it on the boards where only the time and final destination are listed. Say rugby league fans heading to a match at Headingley - they may look for the York train but it is not displayed as York.
 

Failed Unit

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The fife circuits in Scotland have Glenrothes as the destination, the trains of course of Edinburgh Waverley or Newcraighall as thier destinations.

Not sure when the destination on stations reverts back to Edinburgh, I suspect as you get to places such as Cardenden, Edinburgh will be used in both directions but at Dunfirmline it is probably still Edinburgh / Glenrothes (or maybe even Kirkcaldy by then)
 

142094

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The fife circuits in Scotland have Glenrothes as the destination, the trains of course of Edinburgh Waverley or Newcraighall as thier destinations.

Not sure when the destination on stations reverts back to Edinburgh, I suspect as you get to places such as Cardenden, Edinburgh will be used in both directions but at Dunfirmline it is probably still Edinburgh / Glenrothes (or maybe even Kirkcaldy by then)

Some of those are still advertised as Edinburgh Waverley, even at Waverley itself.

JoeGL1984 said:
I've also done what has been referred to on here before as the "West Yorkshire Grand Tour" - it goes from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate but goes round the houses, going via Bradford Interchange (reverses), Halifax, Huddersfield (reverses again) and Wakefield Kirkgate (another reversal). It is described on the boards at Leeds as going to Brighouse (I think).

Can't remember how many offhand but a good amount of these start at Selby, but I can't remember what they are advertised as there.
 

tbtc

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The fife circuits in Scotland have Glenrothes as the destination, the trains of course of Edinburgh Waverley or Newcraighall as thier destinations.

Not sure when the destination on stations reverts back to Edinburgh, I suspect as you get to places such as Cardenden, Edinburgh will be used in both directions but at Dunfirmline it is probably still Edinburgh / Glenrothes (or maybe even Kirkcaldy by then)

Looking at the Departures Board for South Gyle (http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/SGL), the Fife services show "Edinburgh via Kirkcaldy & Dunfermline (circular route)" for one way round the circle (XX:48) and Newcraighall (circular route) for the XX:58 in the opposite direction. I bet that isn't confusing (esp when there are Newcraighall services at XX:03 and XX:35 that don't go all round Fife to get there from South Gyle too)
 

island

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Loop services do a bit of this too. I recall in the last days of the slammers on SWT I did the whole Kingston loop on a CEP+CIG, and train started out shown on the platforms as destination 'Kingston', by Richmond it was showing as 'Wimbledon', and by Kingston it was going to 'London Waterloo'. I imagine the Slade Green and Hounslow loop services do something similar.

Trains from Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup and Greenwich tend to be advertised on the departure boards at Cannon Street and London Bridge as going to Crayford; from New Cross they change to Woolwich Arsenal, and I think at Bexley they start getting marked as Cannon Street. The on-train displays tend to say Slade Green via Sidcup on the way out, not sure where it changes.
 

rmt-driver

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It just confuses people and is a bad idea. The amount of people at Paddington who see there train described on the main boards as say Twyford, then get to platform 14 and see the trains destination board saying Reading, then think "oh this is the wrong train - I must have got the wrong platform number".. Return to main concourse and miss the train.

The main departure board should say something like "SLOW STOPPING SERVICE" or "FAST TRAIN TO READING" or wherever .
 

Failed Unit

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That is a good point RMT driver. At paddington the monitors are always clear about the fast services to Reading. I can remember for sure but at reading the dont have Ealing broadway on the stoppers do they?
 

Crossover

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It's so passengers don't get confused so easily between the fast and all shack services.

It's the same for the Harrogate loop services from Leeds and York. Rather than advertise it as a Leeds service from York, it's shown as a Burley Park service, so people who want to get to Leeds don't accidentally catch it and then spend an age trundling around instead of catching a TPE or XC service that takes around 25 minutes.

Or the faster Northern service via Garforth, in this case as well.

Presumably there are a lot of slow services that don't show the penultimate station, like the LM services from Birmingham New Street to London Euston (which must be overtaken by a couple of Virgin services en route)?

Just a few I would say. On a journey a couple of weeks ago, we overtook a couple of 350's just between Stafford and Watford Junction (on a non-stop from Warrington service)

Are the 172's cleared on the Met line?
No - the don't have trip-cocks.

To add to that, can't have them added either due to their bogie design. The only way to run them over LUL lines is to sandwich the unit between two tripcock fitted units...slightly impractical for Chiltern I would think, so probably isn't done at all :lol:

I've also done what has been referred to on here before as the "West Yorkshire Grand Tour" - it goes from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate but goes round the houses, going via Bradford Interchange (reverses), Halifax, Huddersfield (reverses again) and Wakefield Kirkgate (another reversal). It is described on the boards at Leeds as going to Brighouse (I think).

I wonder if any confusion is caused by this practice (generally, not necessarily on the above service), particularly people who find their train's final destination so they can see it on the boards where only the time and final destination are listed. Say rugby league fans heading to a match at Headingley - they may look for the York train but it is not displayed as York.

You picked up on one I was going to mention there. It gets advertised differently at different places. At Huddersfield I think I heard it advertised as being to Bradford Interchange, before calling at stations to Leeds. That's a service which changes destination quite a few times en-route.

It caused confusion once as I believe at Wakefield Westgate it was advertised as being the service to Leeds and showed all the stops on the board. It departed from the down platform so is naturally where the expresses go from. I was asked by someone if it was the Leeds train and advised them if they wanted Leeds to wait for the next service on the same platform :P

Can't remember how many offhand but a good amount of these start at Selby, but I can't remember what they are advertised as there.

I was at Selby the other day and I seem to recall it advertised as Wakefield Westgate. I think they may have been hourly at the time from there, but as you say, quite a few start/end at Selby though I also don't know exact numbers.

__________________________________

On a slightly different note, I can't help but think that Northern all shacks Leeds - Huddersfield service could be advertised at stations as far as, and including, Dewsbury, as the service to Deighton.

Reason being that if you change trains at Dewsbury and get the TPE running behind the stopper, the Northern service is overtaken at Mirfield as it is in the loop so the TPE arrives a few minutes earlier (and nearer the exit to boot!). That said, the difference is negligible, relies on the TPE not running more than about 5 minutes late and I'm not sure the cramming of more people onto the overstretched 185 fleet should be encouraged!
 

JoeGJ1984

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What about the Grand Tour at Wakefield Kirkgate? Does it show Leeds on its destination display? What about the one at the rear end (as it reverses there?) Because Wakefield Kirkgate has no monitors. Any automated announcements that give any idea of the train's stopping pattern and the fact that it probably isn't best to bord it if one actually wants to get to Leeds?
 

Anvil1984

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Some of those are still advertised as Edinburgh Waverley, even at Waverley itself.



Can't remember how many offhand but a good amount of these start at Selby, but I can't remember what they are advertised as there.

At Selby and the stations prior to Leeds they are advertised as Wakefield Westgate, then at Leeds its shown as Brighouse.
 

142094

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At Selby and the stations prior to Leeds they are advertised as Wakefield Westgate, then at Leeds its shown as Brighouse.

That does sound familiar - one of those things you don't really take notice of, even if you have used the service before.
 

Robinson

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It just confuses people and is a bad idea. The amount of people at Paddington who see there train described on the main boards as say Twyford, then get to platform 14 and see the trains destination board saying Reading, then think "oh this is the wrong train - I must have got the wrong platform number".. Return to main concourse and miss the train.

The main departure board should say something like "SLOW STOPPING SERVICE" or "FAST TRAIN TO READING" or wherever .

Last time I used Paddington there was a small print under the list of calling points which said "After Twyford this train continues to Reading".
 

gnolife

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at Waterloo, Kingston loop services, going to Richmond first, get announced as Teddington, the trains destination blind says Strawberry Hill.
 
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