Just lost my Pacer virginity

[SprinterMan]

I'm sure the sprinterman/sprinterguy confusion will be resolved by sprinterman's imminent username change to pacerman.

Can you change your username? :P

 

[Ivo]

Ask the Administrators

(Usually only if there is a serious reason, e.g. Internet stalking issues)

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The experience of the Pacers (Called Skippers and in chocolate & cream livery) on the Cornish branch lines were dreadful! First fixed wheel passenger stock in donkeys years, and they had a long wheelbase.
The long curve between Par & St Blazey had everyone with their hands over their ears, with the howling, screeching etc. Every curve or crossover gave the same result. Wheelslip - the engines and rail took a thrashing. Often they had to send a engine to Gunislake to rescue a stuck unit.
They ignored the complaints, but when it was discovered that the wheels and track were getting damaged they were quickly withdrawn...lucky Northwest - they are all yours!!!

 

[4SRKT]

Ask the Administrators

(Usually only if there is a serious reason, e.g. Internet stalking issues)

I would say wanting to declare your allegiance to pacers should count as a serious reason!

 

[sprinterguy]

Is it just me who gets confused about SprinterMan and sprinterguy discussing Pacers?

A double take is needed at times to realise that I'm not just having a conversation with myself
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They ignored the complaints, but when it was discovered that the wheels and track were getting damaged they were quickly withdrawn...lucky Northwest - they are all yours!!!

Well, technically the majority of the former Cornish "Skippers" became Tyne and Wear PTEs sponsored units, as "recompense" for losing their six sponsored 143s that had previously carried TWPTE livery. And 142025 and 142026 hung on in the Cornish brown & cream Provincial livery in the north east right up until 1997/8. They were repainted straight into Northern Spirit livery from their original Provincial livery.
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When the rows begin among the members about what state one should be preserved in, I'll be in the bus seat camp for total authenticity!

Absolutely: Provincial blue livery and bus seats with the original brown/beige/blue fabric. A Pacer as they were originally intended!

What do you reckon the chances are of sourcing one of the original transmissions and two part folding doors? I mean, you'd never actually be able to run a unit in that condition as, well, the thing would never actually work, but it would certainly be authentic!

 

[junglejames]

They were fully refurbished under the North Western Trains franchise with new seats and an accessible toilet but most/all have got replacement seat covers and flooring under Northern.




Small seats
No leg room
Poor ride quality
Draughty in winter
Very hot in summer

Try spending an hour to an hour and a half on one.
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Yep, Ive spent plenty of time on them. Ive done the Cumbrian Coast end to end on one, with bus seats. Ive yet to have a problem with them. Comfy seats, even if legroom is restricted. Plenty of character to them. Fun to travel on.

OK, they arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but some people do exagerate about them. They are no more unsuited (interior wise) to what they do, then pendys or voyagers.

 

[pemma]

Yep, Ive spent plenty of time on them. Ive done the Cumbrian Coast end to end on one, with bus seats. Ive yet to have a problem with them. Comfy seats, even if legroom is restricted. Plenty of character to them. Fun to travel on.

OK, they arent perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but some people do exagerate about them. They are no more unsuited (interior wise) to what they do, then pendys or voyagers.

People exaggerate the problems with Voyagers. I've spent 5 hours on a Voyager that wasn't overcrowded and it was perfectly acceptable. Most people who join at the origin station don't travel beyond Birmingham, so they don't really need a train with reclining seats and pillows.

Pacers do appear on some services where a lot of people spend over an hour on. This isn't what they were designed for and they weren't designed to deal with the high loadings they take on a lot of their services, which lead to very slow acceleration leaving stations and extended dwell times loading and unloading through only 3 doors, each with a double step down to the platform.

I can keep on coming up with Pacer disadvantages all day but with Voyagers and Pendolinos I can count on one hand the disadvantages with each.

 

[4SRKT]

I can keep on coming up with Pacer disadvantages all day but with Voyagers and Pendolinos I can count on one hand the disadvantages with each.

So can I, if I use the hairs on the back of my hand rather than my fingers!

 

[WestCoast]

Comfy seats, even if legroom is restricted. Plenty of character to them. Fun to travel on.

I know seating is very subjective, but what's comfy about the seats in a Merseytravel refurbished Pacer? A park bench is more comfortable.

I have travelled on a (usually bus seated) 142 five days a week for about seven years now, so the novelty has long gone. They do have a certain charm, although I can't say I am fan. They appeal to some enthusiasts as being a bit quirky, but from an ordinary passenger's perspective (in my opinion) they are poorly suited to busy commuter and regional runs.

I reckon the ATN 142s with proper seating are considerably better, but there aren't too many of them in the North West.

 

[SprinterMan]

I reckon the ATN models with proper seating are considerably better, but there aren't too many of them in the North West.

I agree, all the other ones I saw had bus or merseyrail seating, so I was very lucky to get 142018.

 

[Yew]

I would say wanting to declare your allegiance to pacers should count as a serious reason!

I fear he would be locked up on grounds of insanity...

 

[tbtc]

People exaggerate the problems with Voyagers. I've spent 5 hours on a Voyager that wasn't overcrowded and it was perfectly acceptable. Most people who join at the origin station don't travel beyond Birmingham, so they don't really need a train with reclining seats and pillows

Totally agree - if the service is quiet enough to get a seat then a Voyager is perfectly acceptable for most passengers. Its not luxury, and for the three people who travel from Aberdeen to Penzance a year it's not ideal, but for the vast majority doing the journeys that they do a Voyager is okay (providing its quiet enough to get a seat on).

A Pacer on something like Newcastle - Carlisle (where there are no alternatives), on the other hand...

 

[SprinterMan]

Totally agree - if the service is quiet enough to get a seat then a Voyager is perfectly acceptable for most passengers. Its not luxury, and for the three people who travel from Aberdeen to Penzance a year it's not ideal, but for the vast majority doing the journeys that they do a Voyager is okay (providing its quiet enough to get a seat on).

A Pacer on something like Newcastle - Carlisle (where there are no alternatives), on the other hand...

I regularly do EUS-BNG on Virgin's 221s, and aside from the one I had with the smelly toilet I have never had any problems with them, they are comfortable and fast, far better than GA's NX-"refurbished" mark 3s. As for long distance pacers, if the loading is ok one with NS seats would be passabale, albeit not great, but any longer than 30mins on one with bad seats is just stupid, almost as stupid as running 321s to Norwich

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

Well done, SprinterMan! I take it you won't be joining the rest of us Pacer degenerates then?

The bus-style seating is a favourite of mine. The ex-Northern Spirit seating is rather comfy! Merseyrail seating though - horse manure.

 

[SprinterMan]

Well done, SprinterMan! I take it you won't be joining the rest of us Pacer degenerates then?

The bus-style seating is a favourite of mine. The ex-Northern Spirit seating is rather comfy! Merseyrail seating though - horse manure.

I'm very happy to finally be part of the club :P
I have seen Merseyrail seated pacers before and they look dreadful. 3+2 airline seating on a train with no legroom at all. Dreadful :P

 

[starrymarkb]

FGW 143s aren't too bad for short runs. Esp now the Exmouth line is almost all CWR (The Barnstaple line still has issues)

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

I have seen Merseyrail seated pacers before and they look dreadful. 3+2 airline seating on a train with no legroom at all. Dreadful :P

Spot on. I will still travel on them because they're 142s at the end of the day! But given the choice, lets say a pair - a Northern Rail and a Merseyrail, I would sit in the Northern Rail one.

 

[tbtc]

FGW 143s aren't too bad for short runs. Esp now the Exmouth line is almost all CWR (The Barnstaple line still has issues)

That looks like an inviting unit - they scrub up okay

 

[sprinterguy]

That looks like an inviting unit - they scrub up okay

Both the FGW and ATW Pacers (142 and 143 alike) have really decent interiors. It beats me as to why, with all the "east side", "west side" and formerly Merseytravel Pacers under their belt for the first time in the Pacers' lives (The regions were pretty thoroughly divided in Regional Railways NW and NE days) that Northern weren't contracted to do a refurbishment to the same level on all their 142s early on in the franchise and have one standard and decent quality interior across all their fleet. It seems a tad ridiculous that there are still a sizeable number of 142s in service with their original bus bench seating, when you would rarely expect to find such seating on an actual bus these days!

The problem is, the longer that Northern put off a refurbishment the closer we are getting to the theoretical 2020 withdrawal date for these units and the bigger the excuse for Northern to simply not bother as it's not worth forking out for a refurb on units with no more than 5-10 years of life in them.

 

[tbtc]

Both the FGW and ATW Pacers (142 and 143 alike) have really decent interiors. It beats me as to why, with all the "east side", "west side" and formerly Merseytravel Pacers under their belt for the first time in the Pacers' lives (The regions were pretty thoroughly divided in Regional Railways NW and NE days) that Northern weren't contracted to do a refurbishment to the same level on all their 142s early on in the franchise and have one standard and decent quality interior across all their fleet. It seems a tad ridiculous that there are still a sizeable number of 142s in service with their original bus bench seating, when you would rarely expect to find such seating on an actual bus these days!

The problem is, the longer that Northern put off a refurbishment the closer we are getting to the theoretical 2020 withdrawal date for these units and the bigger the excuse for Northern to simply not bother as it's not worth forking out for a refurb on units with no more than 5-10 years of life in them.

Totally agreed.

"Bus seats" are pretty rare on buses these days (there are some "W" reg ones in Sheffield, but most buses came with "individual" seats from R/S/T reg).

With under eight years to go I'm not sure Northern (or their sucessor) will spend much on refurbishing Pacers - there's very little incentive to.

The variety of 142s is another strange one - possibly the biggest variability in UK classes?

 

[Samtron2000]

The long curve between Par & St Blazey had everyone with their hands over their ears, with the howling, screeching etc.

Come to Timperley, Gtr Manc. Stand on Moss Lane over bridge and listen to a 142 screaming it flanges off as it goes round the curve from Deansgate Jct to Skelton Jct. I live by there and Sundays are a dream when the ATW 175's get diverted through! The sound of silence!!!!!

 

[Lampshade]

The variety of 142s is another strange one - possibly the biggest variability in UK classes?

317s surely?

 

[pemma]

People exaggerate the problems with Voyagers. I've spent 5 hours on a Voyager that wasn't overcrowded and it was perfectly acceptable. Most people who join at the origin station don't travel beyond Birmingham, so they don't really need a train with reclining seats and pillows.

I should have clarified here that I was really referring to Scotland to South of England services in that statement.

 

[aylesbury]

In a previous post a comment was made about the Leyland National being a good job by Leyland.Unfortunately the vehicle was badly designed with rubbish engines and the information to service engineers was appaling.Bus companies had the National forced on them as they would have bought the Lynx if they could.It took a lot of work to get them working properly and when they were retired everybody breathed a sigh of relief.I have never traveled on a Pacer and hope I never do ,luckily we have decent units here in the Chilterns.

 

[pemma]

Come to Timperley, Gtr Manc. Stand on Moss Lane over bridge and listen to a 142 screaming it flanges off as it goes round the curve from Deansgate Jct to Skelton Jct. I live by there and Sundays are a dream when the ATW 175's get diverted through! The sound of silence!!!!!

Indeed, even the 150s squeal on that section. Some drivers seem to go at around half the permitted speed to slightly reduce how much noise is output.

If that section of track had been in Cornwall it would have had Pacers banned from it. The Mid-Cheshire line only had Pacers introduced to it as regular traction in the mid 1990s after wheel wear improvements had been made to the Pacers and of course passenger trains didn't go via Northenden between the Pacers being introduced and 1989.

 

[387star]

Edale is a lovely spot. I remember sitting in a class 101 (?) unit and whilst in the tunnel you could see through to the drivers cab which was pretty amazing- gradually the light at the end would get nearer but it sure takes a while! Those units sounded like buses.

Whenever I go there now it tends to be 150s or 156s if lucky. I tend to see more in the way of class 142s on the Marple section

 

[142]

so no bus seats or merseyrail seats!

Nowt wrong with them merseyrail seats, same seats as the ex arriva Volvo B10B-58 bus I was sat on for 6 hours from Liverpool to deepest Gloucestershire today. Much more comfy than a lot of people would expect, and an ash tray fit perfectly in the gap between the seats in front lol

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

That looks like an inviting unit - they scrub up okay

Try being on one for 3 hours when it's doing Weymouth runs. Afaik it's rare but I've done it and it is total misery

 

[SprinterMan]

Try being on one for 3 hours when it's doing Weymouth runs. Afaik it's rare but I've done it and it is total misery

Pacers have been to Weymouth?
I'm surprised they are allowed that close to London

 

[richw]

Pacers have been to Weymouth?
I'm surprised they are allowed that close to London

Didn't think they were allowed to run over the third rail due to their "nodding" characteristics

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