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First Group: General Discussion

Ivo

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Surely if they're openly admitting an operation is struggling they would be less likely to find a buyer for said operation...
 
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anthony263

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Surely if they're openly admitting an operation is struggling they would be less likely to find a buyer for said operation...

Thta may be tru but any interested parties are sure to carry out their own investigations to find out why the operation is loosing money.

It could be the case that people are as you put earlier Ivo put off by the high fares so if a company can afford it perhaps reduce the price of certain fares and perhaps have a special offer palnned for the first few weeks of any new operations.
 

Lrd

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Southampton has just had it's bus service relaunched (some good choices, some bad), new livery but no new ticket machines yet (still using Wayfarer's).

I sorta hope they lose more money after this relaunch and end up pulling out of Southampton and let Bluestar/Velvet take over. :lol:
 

Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
buyers might be easier to find if the opperation can bost one or 2 comercial runs in decent nic i.e. making money, with an at least half decent rep and fleat. One of the many problems FSE had was none of the East and Midlothian area was really making anything. Bad news for first and bus users in short term but it will be interesting to see how well the retendered runs do in the hands of Prentis, Eve and ECL.

Wonder if similar things will happen elsewhere? If so the age of the smaller bus opperater may not be over
 

pemma

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I doubt Centrebus would have the pockets to buy anything from First. Maybe they'll win some more fringe routes that WY Metro tender of course.

They brought the West Yorkshire operations that Stagecoach didn't want (with some help from Arriva.)
 

pemma

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You have to take a look at things in Neath to see that you are correct.

Or Cheshire - Arriva are happy running the profitable commercial daytime services but if they only break even on a route or it's less profitable in the evening, a smaller operator becomes involved as well.

GHA (North Wales and Cheshire) seem to be one of the few operators that is expanding it's network with more routes and a wider geographic area. I wonder if they'll become the new Crossville.
 

tbtc

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They brought the West Yorkshire operations that Stagecoach didn't want (with some help from Arriva.)

Waterloo was a tiny depot when compared to the First depots in Huddersfield/ Halifax/ Leeds/ Bradford though - and with very little in the way of "assets".

I don't think Centrebus's pockets are big enough for much more
 

pemma

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Waterloo was a tiny depot when compared to the First depots in Huddersfield/ Halifax/ Leeds/ Bradford though - and with very little in the way of "assets".

The assets is partly because Stagecoach switched the buses around so the better former Yorkshire Traction ones went to South Yorkshire and the worse ones were based at Waterloo. Yorkshire Traction had improved their assets over what they were a few years before the takeover.

I do think that both the West Yorks Yorkshire Traction operations and the K-Line operations seemed to be the ones that Yorkshire Rider didn't want, which is probably why Badgerline acquired Yorkshire Rider and not Yorkshire Traction.
 
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mbonwick

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I notice that no mention was made of the losses First are expected to make on Olympic contracts....
 

Schnellzug

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I notice that no mention was made of the losses First are expected to make on Olympic contracts....

We know that anything involved with the Olympics operates on different economic principles to the rest of the world, so presumably Lord Coe is subsidising it all.
 

Ivo

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I notice that no mention was made of the losses First are expected to make on Olympic contracts....

I would have thought the "positive" publicity associated with said contracts - assuming they don't screw up - would be sufficient to negate that?
 

anthony263

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and im guessing similar things have happened in your part of the world Antony?

Yes.

In fact I have been talking to those I know in Stagecoach about the rumours of Stagecoach looking at expanding the South wales operations.

I did get some positive news along with more although I wont publish them until I see any further information.
 

mbonwick

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We know that anything involved with the Olympics operates on different economic principles to the rest of the world, so presumably Lord Coe is subsidising it all.

Not really, contracts were let out and First screwed up on the tender.
Stagecoach expect to make a profit on their Olympic Family transport contracts, but First bid too low for the spectator transport and will have to foot the losses themselves.
 

Schnellzug

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I would have thought the "positive" publicity associated with said contracts - assuming they don't screw up - would be sufficient to negate that?

indeed, it seems that being an Official Olympic Partner is something that businesses seem to find worthy of boasting about.
 

overthewater

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Does anyone know how much the losses area?and would that be included in the bus profits?
 

mbonwick

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No, no idea what scale the losses are and they won't be included in this set of figures.
 

MCW

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so if they are footing their olympics bill will that mean they will try and skimp by on the minimum that is required of them???

also what are we talking about figures wise for this in terms of what these olympy contracts are worth? or a rough guestimate?

slightly off topic here but, does that mean temporary reallocation of buses to london for that duration?
 

bb21

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slightly off topic here but, does that mean temporary reallocation of buses to london for that duration?

I believe they are ordering brand new vehicles for the Games fleet, which will be cascaded elsewhere after this summer.

Plymouth P&R vehicles might be recalled as they have the games shuttle branding and livery on.
 

David10

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slightly off topic here but, does that mean temporary reallocation of buses to london for that duration?
Buses for the Olympic services wil be a combination of new buses for London and the regions that have had their entry into service delayed, older London buses due to be cascaded and newer buses from the regions. Presumably some buses usually only used on school services will step-up to route services for cover. I believe there is a requirement to Olympic buses to be debranded, something about not being official Olympic sponsors!
 

Schnellzug

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I believe they are ordering brand new vehicles for the Games fleet, which will be cascaded elsewhere after this summer.

Plymouth P&R vehicles might be recalled as they have the games shuttle branding and livery on.

yes, I think most of the new equipment for this year's order is going to be used for that before going to where they're intended for.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I believe there is a requirement to Olympic buses to be debranded, something about not being official Olympic sponsors!

And another ludicruous side-effect if that was that, as it said in RAIL magazine, only a small proportion of the advance tickets that they were expecting to sell had been sold, allegedly because of restrictions on advertising for concerns that weren't officially approved by Lord Coe. :roll:
 

DaveHarries

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yes, I think most of the new equipment for this year's order is going to be used for that before going to where they're intended for.
Good. Perhaps Bristol might get some of the vehicles in question? I would not be surprised if the Dennis Trident / ELCs now on the 76 were not ripe for replacement at some point.

On a slightly off-topic note, however, I gather that Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) have had 6x Wrightbus StreetLite delivered. They are going up to London for the games before returning to Swindon where they will, or so I understand from the operator, go onto Services 15 & 15A.

Dave
 

Ivo

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I suppose the whole cascading business afterwards will be good at least. We might finally see our 18-year-old Lances heading for the scrapheap - where they shouuld have gone several years ago.

Good. Perhaps Bristol might get some of the vehicles in question? I would not be surprised if the Dennis Trident / ELCs now on the 76 were not ripe for replacement at some point.

Bristol have enough thank you ;) It should be our turn! :p

On a slightly off-topic note, however, I gather that Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) have had 6x Wrightbus StreetLite delivered. They are going up to London for the games before returning to Swindon where they will, or so I understand from the operator, go onto Services 15 & 15A.

Never travelled with Thamesdown for some reason. Aren't they the current holders of the title "UK Bus Operator of the Year"?

I remember my first experience of Thamesdown came through watching the Lottery once and they had a game where a woman desperately wanted them to name a bus (a Dart I think; not that I would have not) as she wished, only for them to go one step further and name it after her! This was long before I ever set foot in Swindon - or virtually anywhere else west of roughly Reading.
 

anthony263

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Bristol are to receive 2003 built Trident ALX400s TNA33343-33386 from First Centrewest. They are being refurbished by Rowan Telmac, Coventry.


How about sending some of these to south wales they would be gladly welcomed on certain routes in Swansea & Port Talbot and something needs to replace the volvo olympians
 

Ivo

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Bristol are to receive 2003 built Trident ALX400s TNA33343-33386 from First Centrewest. They are being refurbished by Rowan Telmac, Coventry.

Hang on a minute, 44 vehicles? What do they need that many for? You're sure this is just Bristol and not BS&A as a whole?
 

overthewater

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Most of the buses from this year order will be going yorkshire, Manchester and about 30 for Glasgow from September.
 

MCW

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Most of the buses from this year order will be going yorkshire, Manchester and about 30 for Glasgow from September.

I thought they were scaling back their scottish operations?

also Sorry to bang on about where I live, but Leicester needs new(er) vehicles some of ours are mechanically buggered anyway....

the debranding thing will be interesting, definitely.

I am tempted to go down to london sometime around the olympics, not necessarily during the games but perhaps slightly before to grab some photos
 

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