Striking during olympics

[KA4C]

I think not, I know exactly what it entails. Most of this can be gained in a class room or with simulators, similar to aviation.
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That answer demonstrates that you do not

Why don't you address the points about how you would feel about your internet going down instead of insulting me?

You keep banging on about railwaymen insulting you, whereas in most cases they simply disagree with you, something that you appear unable to cope with

Now my point is that you seem to have quite a lack of understanding of the subject of train driving and train driver management, you also come across as having some sort of problem with the train driving grade in general? now I don't know why that is, perhaps you could enlighten me and then perhaps I'd understand?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Really? Higher grade than you ever were, assuming you are guard. You know nothing about me.

One thing I do know and something that you obviously a serious lack of knowledge of is Training on the railway and what staff of different grades wether they are a higher grade or lower grade than me is what it entails, however if there are qualifications of ranting without a basic grasp of what you are talking about then you certainly have a degree in that!

 

[Metroland]

That answer demonstrates that you do not

You keep banging on about railwaymen insulting you, whereas in most cases they simply disagree with you, something that you appear unable to cope with

Now my point is that you seem to have quite a lack of understanding of the subject of train driving and train driver management, you also come across as having some sort of problem with the train driving grade in general? now I don't know why that is, perhaps you could enlighten me and then perhaps I'd understand?

Are you just going to keep banging on or address the point I put to you? As I said, you know nothing about me.

No I don't have a problem with train crew, but we are talking about strikes that involve them.

 

[radamfi]

Presumably newer train drivers are more likely to have mainstream middle class views now that train driving is now a highly paid job. Does that mean they are less likely to be union members or at least less likely to want to strike?

 

[Metroland]

One thing I do know and something that you obviously a serious lack of knowledge of is Training on the railway and what staff of different grades wether they are a higher grade or lower grade than me is what it entails, however if there are qualifications of ranting without a basic grasp of what you are talking about then you certainly have a degree in that!

You can pretend what you want. You know nothing about me.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

You can pretend what you want. You know nothing about me.

And you know nothing about training on the railway that is there for everyone to see.

 

[radamfi]

Just like the Majority of people in the UK, which was a hard fought right, sometimes it inconviences people. Is it good of course not but we have the right to fight for what we believe in, some people find that basic right very hard to understand.

Of course people have the right to strike, but companies don't have the freedom to sack striking workers. It doesn't seem very equal. Surely it would be fairer if companies could sack workers for striking?

 

[Metroland]

And you know nothing about training on the railway that is there for everyone to see.

If you say so.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Of course people have the right to strike, but companies don't have the freedom to sack striking workers. It doesn't seem very equal. Surely it would be fairer if companies could sack workers for striking?

But then that would go against the basic right to Strike, If you cannot Strike without the fear of getting sacked who would? might as well have a No Strike law which would please the odd person here. Striking from my view point is always used as a last resort, but is a basic right of a worker in this country.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Perhaps if you were to tell people what credentials you have then people would be more likely to be receptive to your opinions of driver training. Both KA4C and ANG are open about what they do, yet you bluster along with the 'you know nothing about me' line, which naturally leads people to doubt your knowledge.

 

[GB]

Of course people have the right to strike, but companies don't have the freedom to sack striking workers. It doesn't seem very equal. Surely it would be fairer if companies could sack workers for striking?

Ok, your striking because of a very serious safety issue that your company is refusing to act on or you are sticking because you haven't been paid for the last two months, is that then fair to sack you?

 

[Metroland]

But then that would go against the basic right to Strike, If you cannot Strike without the fear of getting sacked who would? might as well have a No Strike law which would please the odd person here. Striking from my view point is always used as a last resort, but is a basic right of a worker in this country.

The reality is most people cannot go on strike, they would be replaced. Especially in low skill jobs.

 

[KA4C]

Are you just going to keep banging on or address the point I put to you? As I said, you know nothing about me.

How would I feel if my internet kept going down? How is that relevant to any posts that I have made in this thread?

 

[Metroland]

Perhaps if you were to tell people what credentials you have then people would be more likely to be receptive to your opinions of driver training. Both KA4C and ANG are open about what they do, yet you bluster along with the 'you know nothing about me' line, which naturally leads people to doubt your knowledge.

I don't care if they do, I've told you what I have done in the past you can search it. I've also given evidence to public inquires on training, use of simulators.

 

[Legzr1]

No I'm not interested in the technicality of EMT pensions, you interested in mine? As a customer I'm interested in when I go to the station there is yet another board up telling me the service will be disrupted.

Ditto, if your internet kept going down, you'd be pretty *issed off after a while and probably change providers. You'd expect to get a "Sorry for the lack of service, we are all working together to rectify this problem"

You wouldn't be interested in the pension arrangements of the server engineers, nor would you expect to go onto a forum and get a mouth full of crap about capitalist pigs, left wing clap trap, oh we are just so important we deserve X.

It's all part of the 'big picture' that you continue to profess knowledge of.

There really is no way of getting through to some people is there?



Did you manage to get through to EMT management?

I know ASLEF have tried and failed on numerous occasions.
Maybe the tone of your questions might get someone to sit up and take notice.

You can pretend what you want. You know nothing about me.

Correct.

Whilst it's unfair to judge people based on a few half-ar**ed rants on a forum it is pretty easy to see you have very little knowledge of driving trains.

Google can give clues.

It doesn't give answers.

Once all the training and route knowledge is completed there are also 2 years of PQA.

The tip of the iceberg if you will.

However,'most' cannot spell so they shouldn't be threatening to strike.



Mindless drivel.

 

[Metroland]

How would I feel if my internet kept going down? How is that relevant to any posts that I have made in this thread?

Because it's about the availability of services you rely on, and what would you do if it kept happening?
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Mindless drivel.

You said it, you actually going to add something sensible to this debate?

 

[KA4C]

Because it's about the availability of services you rely on, and what would you do if it kept happening?

Have I said anywhere that I support the proposed action on EMT?

No

So your question is irrelevant to the posts that I have made and the logic that you have attempted to pursue

Stop assuming


Having said all of that, the answer is it has done, I have done and it still does. I'm still on here, aint I
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You said it, you actually going to add something sensible to this debate?

Irony appears to be lost

 

[Metroland]

Have I said anywhere that I support the proposed action on EMT?

No

So your question is irrelevant to the posts that I have made and the logic that you have attempted to pursue

Stop assuming


Having said all of that, the answer is it has done, I have done and it still does. I'm still on here, aint I
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Irony appears to be lost

I've added loads of points, excellent ideas for training, comparisons of pay, what it's like to be a customer. Virtually all the 'for strike' people are railway (union) members and have vested interests. I think that says it all.

 

[GB]

The reality is most people cannot go on strike,

the reality is most actually do hold the right to strike, whether they use that right or not (for what ever reason) is pretty irrelevant.

they would be replaced. Especially in low skill jobs.

As sad as that might be (*if it were true), why should someone else's circumstances (such as a railway worker) be dictated by that?

*are there actually any cases of this happening?

 

[radamfi]

But then that would go against the basic right to Strike, If you cannot Strike without the fear of getting sacked who would? might as well have a No Strike law which would please the odd person here. Striking from my view point is always used as a last resort, but is a basic right of a worker in this country.

In the case of train drivers, there is a significant barrier to entry and high training costs, so striking staff would not necessarily be sacked after a strike. I see the ability of the company to sack striking workers as a way to try and create a more level playing field, although I still think striking workers would still have an advantage even with the right to sack. At present, the union holds all the cards.

 

[Metroland]

the reality is most actually do hold the right to strike, whether they use that right or not (for what ever reason) is pretty irrelevant.

IS it? I don't see Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsbury workers on strike frequently, nor water companies, electric companies, virtually all the retail establishments. I don't see Virgin internet or BT giving up the ghost, the mobile phone companies, engineering firms, or any of the banks. If fact the vast majority seems okay.

So what is it about the railways?

 

[KA4C]

Virtually all the 'for strike' people are railway (union) members and have vested interests. I think that says it all.

And quite a few railway staff who are union members might not agree that the dispute is a good thing, do they also have vested interests?

Now, enlighten me, what is your actual experience of working on the railway, you do try to portray that you have informed opinion after all

 

[ANorthernGuard]

In the case of train drivers, there is a significant barrier to entry and high training costs, so striking staff would not necessarily be sacked after a strike. I see the ability of the company to sack striking workers as a way to try and create a more level playing field, although I still think striking workers would still have an advantage even with the right to sack. At present, the union holds all the cards.

But again you give a company the right to sack someone who strikes you in effect take away the right to strike, Negotiation is key to all disputes and needs both sides to give a bit to come to a conclusion, sadly too many TOC's treat their staff poorly. It has been proven across numerous industries you treat your staff right and with respect productivity is certainly so much higher and profits usually increase as the worker is a lot more willing to go that extra mile, but then the opposite is always a factor as well. Maybe if some of these TOC's that are involved in the Olympics had treated their staff better in the past they would have had a better deal through negotiation and not the threat of striking. That we will never know

 

[Metroland]

And quite a few railway staff who are union members might not agree that the dispute is a good thing, do they also have vested interests?

Now, enlighten me, what is your actual experience of working on the railway, you do try to portray that you have informed opinion after all

It's none of your business, irreverent anyway, unless I know your name and grades you could equally have no qualification on the matter. You could just be one of those 'internet experts'.

 

[KA4C]

It's none of your business, irreverent anyway, unless I know your name and grades you could equally have no qualification on the matter. You could just be one of those 'internet experts'. I did many things, signaller was one, top grade.

And there we have it

Oh and no problem with what I do

I manage drivers and driver competency, have done for over 20 years, now show me yours

 

[Pugwash]

IS it? I don't see Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsbury workers on strike frequently, nor water companies, electric companies, virtually all the retail establishments. I don't see Virgin internet or BT giving up the ghost, the mobile phone companies, engineering firms, or any of the banks. If fact the vast majority seems okay.

So what is it about the railways?

A lack of competition, if Morrisons were to close down for a day shoppers would just go to another store, if Greater Anglia close down, I cannot use another line, rail staff know they can hold the company over a barrel.

Governments are happy to endorse prices going up to allow staffing costs to go up if it means the don't have to intervene in a strike.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

And there we have it

Oh and no problem with what I do

I manage drivers and driver competency, have done for over 20 years, now show me yours

I am a fully Qualified Conductor/Guard with a decades experience, I sign numerous routes and Traction in The North of England. I (obviously) hold PTS and a SCWID Card and I am a member of the RMT

Come on Metroland your turn

 

[radamfi]

But again you give a company the right to sack someone who strikes you in effect take away the right to strike, Negotiation is key to all disputes and needs both sides to give a bit to come to a conclusion, sadly too many TOC's treat their staff poorly. It has been proven across numerous industries you treat your staff right and with respect productivity is certainly so much higher and profits usually increase as the worker is a lot more willing to go that extra mile, but then the opposite is always a factor as well. Maybe if some of these TOC's that are involved in the Olympics had treated their staff better in the past they would have had a better deal through negotiation and not the threat of striking. That we will never know

But what option do employers have if they have no choice but to agree to every demand set by the union? Because unions always get what they want anyway, there is no incentive for the employer to 'treat the staff right', at least in the more unionised industries such as rail.

I would agree that in non-unionised jobs, where good employers who look after their staff, there is mutual benefit for staff and employees. Here the main incentive for the employer is to stop good employees leaving for their competitors.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

But what option do employers have if they have no choice but to agree to every demand set by the union? Because unions always get what they want anyway, there is no incentive for the employer to 'treat the staff right', at least in the more unionised industries such as rail.

I would agree that in non-unionised jobs, where good employers who look after their staff, there is mutual benefit for staff and employees. Here the main incentive for the employer is to stop good employees leaving for their competitors.

I know of numerous colleagues that have moved to other TOC's because they feel that their employer at the time has either treated them poorly or feel it is time to move on. When that happens it costs the TOC alot of money in training and Training on the railway (as you no doubt have seen) is very intensive and expensive, The TOC I work for as the moment Morale is at an all time low and a lot are moving on which are causing staff shortages (especially drivers) at numerous depots, Unions do hold power but are certainly not untouchable, there has been a few times when we have balloted AGAINST strike action, only once have voted FOR.

 

[Metroland]

And there we have it

Oh and no problem with what I do

I manage drivers and driver competency, have done for over 20 years, now show me yours

I sincerely hope you will therefore report the standards of staff on this forum to the relevant employer, because standards, especially with regards addressing customers have slipped somewhat.

As I said, among other things, and you have no idea what I do now, nor am I prepared to discuss it. Suffice to say, I am aware of the training requirements for drivers.

Leaving that aside, we are now getting onto more interesting point. Because the unions have so much power, what can be done to curtail it? And should it be curtailed?

Is it really fair on the public or their employers to experience continuous walk outs in order to obtain better remuneration? considering the railway has got to reduce costs. In terms of tax payer input and fare prices.

Should markets for entry to railway jobs be opened up? College courses, university, home study, outside agency and so on?