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2 policewoman spoke to me In Edinburgh waverly

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Flamingo

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You are spot on there, mate. Unfortunately, I have witnessed quite abit of At my best in the 1980's and 1990's I could certainly have downed a half pint of Buckfast in one, but I'm not at all certain about the single malt!!!

My record was a pint in around 6 seconds. I could probably still do it, but would not be able to drink much more after it!
 
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CarterUSM

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Mmmn, a pint of Buckfast.:D I could do a half bottle in under 10 seconds back in the day, haven't had a snifter of it in years though. Might indulge in one soon.
 

Greenback

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Mmmn, a pint of Buckfast.:D I could do a half bottle in under 10 seconds back in the day, haven't had a snifter of it in years though. Might indulge in one soon.

I haven't seen a bottle in ages, thought they'd stopped making it!;)
 

Juniper Driver

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To be honest, from what you have said there, it sounds like you may have possibly been a little offish (though of course we don't know what tone you spoke with, as that could have also taken things one way or another)

If you feel you were a little merry, maybe that came across to the police as well and they were doing it to protect themselves in case it progressed any further.

Couldn't this behaviour be taken as drunk and disorderly?

I had a row with a copper on the 1997 Cambridge bike ride who said I was going to jump a red light although I had no intention of doing it even though loads of other people had.

I realised though I was totally wrong to argue.Total waste of time (also).Never forgot the incident though,but in truth I did zoom up to that traffic light so it may have looked like I wasn't going to stop.
 

jon0844

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If you had a pint for every time you encountered someone with an advance ticket on the wrong train...
 

12CSVT

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I had a row with a copper on the 1997 Cambridge bike ride who said I was going to jump a red light although I had no intention of doing it even though loads of other people had.

A better course of action would be to ask for the officer's name and number, and making a formal complaint for slander.
 

WelshBluebird

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Couldn't this behaviour be taken as drunk and disorderly?

I had a row with a copper on the 1997 Cambridge bike ride who said I was going to jump a red light although I had no intention of doing it even though loads of other people had.

I realised though I was totally wrong to argue.Total waste of time (also).Never forgot the incident though,but in truth I did zoom up to that traffic light so it may have looked like I wasn't going to stop.

You see, I totally disagree with you.
IMO you were right to argue. You had done nothing wrong.
You are innocent unless it can be proven otherwise.
So if you did not jump the red light, then they have no right to stop and talk to you.
 

Greenback

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You see, I totally disagree with you.
IMO you were right to argue. You had done nothing wrong.
You are innocent unless it can be proven otherwise.
So if you did not jump the red light, then they have no right to stop and talk to you.

I don't agree. I see nothing wrong with a law enforcement officer who suspects that a person may break the law stepping in to have a word and tell them not to.

I think that it is far better to try and stop someone from doing something that may be silly rather than look on, let them do it and then punish them afterwards.
 

scotsman

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I work in a bar in Scotland (this is important, in terms of law).

You must have entered around 11pm, the closing time. You were, illegally, sold a pint, as last orders are 15 minutes before closing time (10.45pm).

There are then 15 minutes "drinking up" time from last orders (11pm).

Anyway, this is all pretty irrelevant. You refused to leave the pub when asked. That is an offence itself. The bar staff will be used to folk refusing to leave around closing time, they may well have not served you and not know what you were told and they will also be tired and wanting to get home!

The fact is that if someone under the influence of alcohol refuses to comply with their instructions, they will not be afraid to get plod in to deal with it. You admit yourself that you "caused a fuss" - an indication that you were a) Intoxicated; and b) leaving.
 

WelshBluebird

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I don't agree. I see nothing wrong with a law enforcement officer who suspects that a person may break the law stepping in to have a word and tell them not to.

I think that it is far better to try and stop someone from doing something that may be silly rather than look on, let them do it and then punish them afterwards.

And if the person assures the officer that they are not breaking the law, and the person does not look like they are breaking the law, then that should be that. There should be no need for a "row". Especially when it comes to something like jumping a red light on a bike. If the person has not jumped the red light, then there is no need at all for a "row". A quick word if you really must (I still disagree with that, but there you go) and the copper should then do nothing unless the law is broken. After all, as I said, innocent until proven otherwise.
 

Greenback

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And if the person assures the officer that they are not breaking the law, and the person does not look like they are breaking the law, then that should be that. There should be no need for a "row". Especially when it comes to something like jumping a red light on a bike. If the person has not jumped the red light, then there is no need at all for a "row". A quick word if you really must (I still disagree with that, but there you go) and the copper should then do nothing unless the law is broken. After all, as I said, innocent until proven otherwise.

In the majority of cases, the only reason there will be a row (as in this case) is because the person being spoken to objects to it. I'm sure that there would be many complaints if, for example, the police had watched somebody staggering out of a pub towards their car and, rather than advise the person not to try to drive, they had waited for them to get in, start the car, drive off and knock someone over before arresting them.

Prevention is better than cure.
 

GB

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I'm sure that there would be many complaints if, for example, the police had watched somebody staggering out of a pub towards their car and, rather than advise the person not to try to drive, they had waited for them to get in, start the car, drive off and knock someone over before arresting them.

Prevention is better than cure.

That's exactly how the Police do it though and really it's the only way to secure a conviction for driving under the influence. I'd much rather they allow someone to drive a few yards and gaurentee a conviction then for them to issue a few words only for the person to do it again the next night and then kill someone.

As for the cycling past a red light (or not), you have either done it or you haven't, therefore you have either broken the law or you havent. There is no law against thinks about doing it so there should be no bases for a police officer to pull you aside unless he has seen something else that might warrant a chat.
 

michael769

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Not around here it's not! Especially if it's someone on foot patrol...

Indeed! The offence of being drunk in charge (not driving note!) of a motor vehicle exists for a reason. All then need to do is wait for the suspect to get in the driving seat with their car keys on them.

GB said:
As for the cycling past a red light (or not), you have either done it or you haven't, therefore you have either broken the law or you havent. There is no law against thinks about doing it so there should be no bases for a police officer to pull you aside unless he has seen something else that might warrant a chat.

How about their obligation to prevent a crime occurring? How would you feel if the police allowed someone they saw behaving suspiciously in your garden but decided to wait until they had smashed your door in and started trashing the interior before doing anything about it?
 

jon0844

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Surely already being in a garden is reason to stop, unlike someone on the pavement looking at a house?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 

ralphchadkirk

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Surely already being in a garden is reason to stop, unlike someone on the pavement looking at a house?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Trespass is a civil offence. It'll only become burglary when they actually enter the building.
 

Kneedown

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Regarding My Name the cop had her notebook open when asking.

It's good practice for an officer to record all interactions with the public in their pocket books. Senior Officers regularly check their Constables pocket books and any sign of inactivity or gaps in time will prompt questions.
Also it is an immediate record of the conversation that took place. When the notebook comes out it doesnt automatically mean you are in trouble, more that the Officer concerned is consciencious and following procedure by recording the details of all parties involved in the dispute.
I cant comment on your demeanour or attitude at the time but on face value it does sound like you were on the defensive which will prompt further questioning.
 

jon0844

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Trespass is a civil offence. It'll only become burglary when they actually enter the building.

I realise that, but I can imagine a police officer attempting to ask questions if someone was standing around in a garden late at night.
 

GB

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Indeed! The offence of being drunk in charge (not driving note!) of a motor vehicle exists for a reason. All then need to do is wait for the suspect to get in the driving seat with their car keys on them.

That's at odds with the numerous police tv shows that are constantly on TV and the charge and punishment of drunk while in charge is less than that of driving while under the influence.


How about their obligation to prevent a crime occurring? How would you feel if the police allowed someone they saw behaving suspiciously in your garden but decided to wait until they had smashed your door in and started trashing the interior before doing anything about it?

The two are entirely different and you know it. As I said, there is no law against thinking about running a red so there is nothing for the police to question.

Are you really saying that you would be ok with a police officer pulling you aside or knocking on your door claiming that, even tho you didn't, he believed you were going to run a red and start asking a whole load of questions?
 

michael769

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That's at odds with the numerous police tv shows that are constantly on TV and the charge and punishment of drunk while in charge is less than that of driving while under the influence.

The offence of drunk driving and drunk in charge both come from the same section of the RTA and there is no distinction in seriousness as both carry pretty much the same penalties. There is no need for (and indeed it would be a breach of ACPO guidelines and the police constables duty to protect the public) the public to be put at risk by allowing someone who is drunk to actually drive off before intervening.

Those TV shows do not give an accurate reflection of day to day policing, they just show the exciting bits, often carefully edited to make them more exciting.

The two are entirely different and you know it. As I said, there is no law against thinking about running a red so there is nothing for the police to question.

You miss my point entirely. The police have no way of knowing if that person standing in a garden is not the householder being there perfectly legitimately. All they can do is rely on their experience and gut instinct to tell them if something "feels" wrong, and to then investigate or advise so as to prevent a crime occurring

As with all educated guesses they sometimes get it wrong, which is why our legal system requires evidence rather than the potentially flawed guesses and opinions of police officers in order to punish wrong doers.

I see no difference between a PC concerned about what someone in a garden is up to, and one concerned that someone intends to contravene a red light, and in my view it is entirely appropriate for them to seek to investigate and where it seems fit to provide advice so as to reduce the risk of an offence being committed.

The day we expect out police to go out with the sole purpose of catching people out is the day we become a police state.

Are you really saying that you would be ok with a police officer pulling you aside or knocking on your door claiming that, even tho you didn't, he believed you were going to run a red and start asking a whole load of questions?

I would be more concerned on understanding what it was about my recent behavior that had causes the officer to become concerned that I may be about to commit an offence.

I have been spoken to by the police on a couple of occasions and given advise, and was always grateful for the restraint and discretion, as well as being reassured that they were being diligent in seeking to protect the public (me!) from the consequences of allowing offences to occur.

We should not be expecting (or allowing) the police to pick and choose which offences to treat with this level of diligence and which not.
 

scotsman

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I've re-read this and can't quite believe some of the posts. So here's my tuppence worth...again!

"drinking up time" in a bar is a privilege, not a right. While a publican is legally allowed to give 20 minutes for people to finish their drinks, you do not legally have 20 minutes after final orders to finish your drink. Any time they do indicate can be revoked at any point and you be asked to leave. So the bar were allowed to ask you to leave quicker than they said, and the Police were completely right to back them up.

However, whether that's good for keeping a customer base is a completely different question.

It's up to 30 minutes where a meal is being taken, 15 minutes otherwise. However, dosxuk is correct in saying that it's at their discretion whether any is permitted.

Although calling the Police because someone has overstayed his welcome by a couple of minutes is a massive overreaction. Some people (me included) would say this is a waste of Police time.

No it's not! You're getting mixed up - he hasn't "overstayed his welcome" he's refusing to leave! Generally getting the cops is a last resort too (draw your own conclusions)

The Policewoman did not seem to take my side of the story seriously, and as you can imagine that did not help my mood.

If it ever had transpired that i was in the wrong about the time situation I would have no problem admitting my mistake and saying sorry.

Why would the policewoman not give serious consideration to my side of the story? I consider that unfair.

You were in the wrong! You were refusing to leave the premises after being instructed to leave. Simple.


Not sure why you think it was harsh - he was in a bar and was told it was closing and asked to drink up and leave which he should have done but instead acted like a petulent little brat and said he was going to take another 5 minutes.

As for this additional 5 minutes how does he know how long he had actually been there as in his original post he only thinks it was about 11ish that he was told he had 15 minutes to drink up in.
This. Methinks he probably ordered a bit before 11pm...

Now, as for this post, I'm going to take it one bit at a time.

I Quite Rightly gave Myself the benefit of the doubt as i am 90 odd % sure i had sat down at my table at just on 11pm or ever so slightly before so when I got told at 11.10pm My Time was "up" The 15 Minutes i was told of would NOT been used up,you may call that nitpicking But I feel it is Right.
Quite rightly? The fact two Polis had to remove you begs to differ, does it not?! You may feel that it's a right, but it's not. You refused to comply, and you faced the consequences. I think it might be your attitude - had you simply said "Sorry, the guy on the bar said I had 15 minutes - can I not have a minute to finish this, please?" you may well have been fine!


As I Left the cops to get my Train and the Talk was just Ending I said to Her Colleague who was Silent All the Time that I would Shake Her Hand But Not The Cop Who Was Giving me the 3rd Degree.

Not After How She Spoke To me.

Why does it matter so much that you shake either's hand? Or was it more the point of insulting the policewoman who did her job and asked what you were up to?

What About Giving Consideration And Benefit of the Doubt to the Paying Customer??.

Yes, that would be professional. Like I said, I think it has a lot to do with your attitude.[/QUOTE]
 
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