"Too many railway workers are paid to do nothing"

[rail-britain]

Isn't that a standard safeguard where cash or valuables are involved?

I agree it would be reasonable for cash, but for other machine, sign, etc?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Imo some of the smaller stations, especially where they may be about to close the ticket office, I feel that they could employ a 'supervisor' (or suitable title!!) who could do several roles ie help show passengers how to use the TVM, check tickets in, out or both, sell tickets from an Avantix machine when busy or TVM broken etc, and generally keep an eye on safety /tidiness.
In certain shops/ outlets around 1.75% is added to the price for theft, anyone know what the percentage regarding the cost to railways is?

 

[A-driver]

Of course there are examples of too many staff, often caused by privatisation requiring a duplication of roles (or inefficient use of staff, like those travelling long distances as passengers/ lodging overnight like the East Coast Inverness services).

Infact there are now significantly less lodging turns in the uk than there were in BR days and less than in some European countries. Also the Inverness lodger is one of the most productive driver turns in the uk.

As for the rest of your argument I don't believe you fully understand the exact job descriptions of some of the staff you talk about. How many restaurant waiters start work at 0400 and get abuse from angry customers because a train is delayed?

As for drivers salaries these do not just grow through union demands. Often quite the opposite. TOCs are very keen to buy off all our tearms and conditions at the moment. I know of a few pay talks lately where the union has gone in not looking for money but have ended with the company insisting on buying out t&cs and offering money instead. Plus when privatisation occurred companies had to retain drivers as training costs are huge (far, far greater than bus drivers). Virgin started the trend by offering a huge pay rise so that they could take in qualified drivers who didn't need any costly training. This forced other operators to significantly improve pay to retain their staff. ASLEF may try to claim that they got us the excelent pay we now have but I assure you, they did far less than they claim.

This thread is quickly becoming yet another staff bashing thread yet again by people with no idea what our jobs are.

 

[tbtc]

This thread is quickly becoming yet another staff bashing thread yet again by people with no idea what our jobs are.

I wouldn't say that, I'd say that this thread has got distracted by a comment about Exeter Central (when clearly there's no plans to close that station).

Fair enough if some people want to pretend that the railway is efficient and that there's no waste though.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Why don't you all just write to the guy and point out the error of his ways?

 

[starrymarkb]

Imo some of the smaller stations, especially where they may be about to close the ticket office, I feel that they could employ a 'supervisor' (or suitable title!!) who could do several roles ie help show passengers how to use the TVM, check tickets in, out or both, sell tickets from an Avantix machine when busy or TVM broken etc, and generally keep an eye on safety /tidiness.
In certain shops/ outlets around 1.75% is added to the price for theft, anyone know what the percentage regarding the cost to railways is?

Ideally you want about 2-3% fare evasion... If you make an effort (extra staff) to reduce that figure further it will cost you more then the fines/fares you'd receive.

 

[A-driver]

The railway is far from efficient but blaming staff is an easy way to distract from the true wastage which goes on. The problem is that our jobs arnt understood by most people-drivers or any other front line grades. People forget there are layers or management who they dont see paid far more than us who realistically do far less than us in tearms of productivity.

Then there is all the money wasted on marketing, branding, duplicated hr and operations departments, rolling stock leasing, shareholder profits etc.

Then compare rail staff productivity to many other industries and jobs. As a driver if I have a 6 hour constant driving spree-7 min turn around etc than that's 6 hours of 100% productivity. No office staff style toilet breaks, fag breaks, coffee breaks, 'I'm just checking Facebook' breaks, fresh air leg stretch breaks, personal phone call breaks etc. After that 6 hours I get 30 mins off then spend another 3 hours 100% productive. I have worked in offices and other industries and I assure you that if staff are responsible for wastage in the rail industry then other business are far behind us!

 

[50047]

I wouldn't say that, I'd say that this thread has got distracted by a comment about Exeter Central (when clearly there's no plans to close that station).

Fair enough if some people want to pretend that the railway is efficient and that there's no waste though.

Without doubt there are inefficiencies but the most inefficient organisation I can think of is based in Westminster and is in the main responsible for the entire fiasco that is privatisation. Perhaps a good sort out there should be first on the list. You want to save money, then do away with shareholders.

And as for staff bashing, it is here, and is clearly based on the similar amount of knowledge demonstrated by the journalist that wrote the article in the first place.

 

[The Ham]

Also, Exeter is a city not a town and it has a third station, Exeter St Thomas. That is an unstaffed halt though. There's a fourth not named after the city - St James' Park. And a fifth - Polsloe Bridge. Oh, and a sixth - Digby and Sowton.

Why wasn't the ill-informed journo asking why Exeter has six stations? :roll:

... and a 7th planned and due to be paid for a developer for a new housing scheme as part of the Newcourt development area.

Most of the time I come across front line staff they are working, and even if you happen to see someone not working chances are they have just finished helping a customer or are about to. I doubt that anyone would suggest that John Lewis got rid of up to a 1/3 of their staff because they are not always busy. For without some spare "slack" there will be a lot more upset/lost/conused/on the wrong train passengers.

 

[2Dogbox]

"Too many journalists are paid to write a load of twaddle" that's my opinion. Tell you what let's sack everyone who's job is thought of as a waste of time by journalists.... Oh that would just leave one proffession, journalists. Never mind they will have plenty to write about moaning about the unemployed.

 

[Ferret]

"Too many journalists are paid to write a load of twaddle" that's my opinion. Tell you what let's sack everyone who's job is thought of as a waste of time by journalists.... Oh that would just leave one proffession, journalists. Never mind they will have plenty to write about moaning about the unemployed.

Never a truer word spoken! Of course, certain newspapers are currently making heavy losses in this internet age. Maybe in the next decade there'll be one or two journalists out of work as a result - and I'm afraid I for one will not be shedding many tears, especially if the likes of the Sun and Guardian end up down the toilet.

 

[Squaddie]

I'm afraid I for one will not be shedding many tears, especially if the likes of the Sun and Guardian end up down the toilet.

The Sun and the Guardian are about as far apart as any two newspapers could possibly be (one a right-wing tabloid, the other a left-wing broadsheet), so I'm not really sure what you mean by "the likes of the Sun and Guardian".

 

[starrymarkb]

The Sun and the Guardian are about as far apart as any two newspapers could possibly be (one a right-wing tabloid, the other a left-wing broadsheet), so I'm not really sure what you mean by "the likes of the Sun and Guardian".

Where would the Daily Mail fit in? Left or Right of the Sun?

 

[Ferret]

The Sun and the Guardian are about as far apart as any two newspapers could possibly be (one a right-wing tabloid, the other a left-wing broadsheet), so I'm not really sure what you mean by "the likes of the Sun and Guardian".

They are both similar in that they are obsessed by telling their readership what to think - which to me is the definition of sub-standard journalism. The fact that one is left wing and one is right wing is immaterial. What annoyed me about this was it was in the Independent, which I usually find to be a cut above the rest.

 

[John55]

Also, Exeter is a city not a town and it has a third station, Exeter St Thomas. That is an unstaffed halt though. There's a fourth not named after the city - St James' Park. And a fifth - Polsloe Bridge. Oh, and a sixth - Digby and Sowton.

Why wasn't the ill-informed journo asking why Exeter has six stations? :roll:

He did not ask why Exeter had two, four or six stations he asked why Exeter has two fully manned stations at St Davids and Central.

The answer is of course because the passenger numbers justify it. If you are going to criticise poor journalism like this it is a good idea to comment on what he actually said.

However much more interesting would be to contrast this article with one which appeared in the same newspaper last monday. This was a rather interesting article which contrasted the way the Olympic games in London was considered a great success despite the way the whole event was run on almost anti-business lines. The author of the Olympic article noted that the whole event was grossly overmanned and over resourced and extraordinarily inefficient by normal business standards. Now the presence of many thousands of unpaid volunteers helps with having lots of staff to keep people moving in the right direction but there were enormous numbers of paid people there just in case something went wrong and something needed to be done about it.

Now this highlights the great contradiction of many aspects of life. The general public (or perhaps journalists) wants lots of staff to deal with "me" but there should be no or minimal staff to deal with anyone else as this makes my ticket too expensive!

Back to the original article I found it surprising someone who forks out for a first class ticket is critical of a trolley coming round to give him his tea and bikkies or whatever.

 

[A-driver]

I doubt he forks out for a 1st class ticket. It's probably paid for on expenses by the independent.

Hang on, I've just thought of a way we could reduce costs in the newspaper industry...

 

[John55]

I doubt he forks out for a 1st class ticket. It's probably paid for on expenses by the independent.

Hang on, I've just thought of a way we could reduce costs in the newspaper industry...

I would not bet on that. Philip Hensher is a Professor at Exeter University and writer who lives in Topsham so while he may get someone else to pay his fare it is most likely not the newspaper.

 

[A-driver]

I would not bet on that. Philip Hensher is a Professor at Exeter University and writer who lives in Topsham so while he may get someone else to pay his fare it is most likely not the newspaper.

Ah-ok, didn't know that but was just a general observation about other industries.

 

[2Dogbox]

I'm afraid I for one will not be shedding many tears, especially if the likes of the Sun and Guardian end up down the toilet.

Neither will I... The newpaper industry are the most hypocritial lot out there!

 

[Oliver]

At other times the same journalists are no doubt complaining about the amount of ticketless travel they see... How about we publish an article suggesting that Britain would be a much better place if there was a 50% cut in journalists...ah, we have no chance of getting any paper to print it.

Actually all the national papers have been firing a large proportion of their journalists and other production staff over the last few years, due to falling circulation, advertising revenue, etc. Sadly this hasn't improved the journalistic quality of those remaining.

 

[87015]

Not enough railway workers willing to drive trains for LM today AGAIN...

 

[PHILIPE]

The high and unnecessary costs are due simply to fragmentation but the Government doesn't want to know this because iit would mean re-nationalising to cut costs.

 

[A-driver]

Not enough railway workers willing to drive trains for LM today AGAIN...

Shows exactly what happens when a company refuses to recruit staff and try to run things with over reliance on voluntary overtime. ASLEF have been trying to get Sunday in the working week for a while but the TOCs don't want to hear it.

 

[A-driver]

Although its Saturday I have just realised. Been a long week! Still-my point still stands.

 

[es373]

No, the problem with today's railway is that there are too many managers who are paid £70k+ a year! Why have 2 managers doing 1 task when you can have 1 manager doing that task.

 

[NSEFAN]

The newpaper industry are the most hypocritial lot out there!

Aren't you forgetting someone?

Politicians.

 

[50047]

Actually all the national papers have been firing a large proportion of their journalists and other production staff over the last few years, due to falling circulation, advertising revenue, etc. Sadly this hasn't improved the journalistic quality of those remaining.

Either that or they're in court for hacking.

Curious thing is that the same papers rightly berate the loss of jobs when businesses fold, then advocate sacking a third of rail staff :roll: Still, railway employees aren't allowed to have rights, feed their kids or have mortgages, being peasants and all that are they.

Let's not forget either that it was the likes of the Sun that decided that all railway enthusiast were sad and suffering from Asperger’s syndrome, and so lead to the image that enthusiasts have today in the popular press.

When you can't find a real story, a bit of supposition will always do eh.

Best job in the world is a journalist, as you can make it up as you go along and print it for millions of sheep to read

 

[Oswyntail]

No, the problem with today's railway is that there are too many managers who are paid £70k+ a year! Why have 2 managers doing 1 task when you can have 1 manager doing that task.

And do you know exactly what their job entails....

Aren't you forgetting someone?
Politicians.

...or their job....

Neither will I... The newpaper industry are the most hypocritial lot out there!

...or their job?
No, thought not. Perhaps the hypocrites also include those who are willing to slag off anyone else doing a job they have no clue about while moaning that no one understands the job they themselves do.

 

[50047]

No, the problem with today's railway is that there are too many managers who are paid £70k+ a year! Why have 2 managers doing 1 task when you can have 1 manager doing that task.

This debate could go on forever but actually the answer is the existance of shareholders. And incidentally I know several railway managers. All have come through the grades and not one is earning anywhere near 70k and they are as fed up as everyone else with the mess that the industry they loved has become. Their only goal is retire and good luck to all of them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not enough railway workers willing to drive trains for LM today AGAIN...

Well employ enough that you don't need to rely on overtime then. So simple. At one time we got paid so poorly that we relied on overtime to pay our bills. Then things improved and along comes McNulty who says take it all away again. Seems that they want it both ways. Keep refusing those restdays gents

 

[Wyvern]

I've just been watching Dvorak's New World Syphony on BBC2.

The bassoon players dont seem to be doing very much.

Perhaps we should get rid of them.