First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[HH]

I agree - It isnt weighted deliverability v premium. Each criteria will have an individual score broken down from the whole 100%

Each Deliverability criterion has its own weighting, which goes towards the overall score. The Premium is the Premium, and if it's high enough, will win - providing you have achieved a minimum Deliverability score.

If the Premium is higher, but not high enough to win at the first hurdle, then, and only then, will Deliverability scores be compared. On ICWC this didn't happen. Even if it did, for it to decide the contest, the better score would have to be 10% higher than the next best of those bids still in competition. If not it goes back to premium, but with the bar halved; then back to deliverability; and then one more round. So there are 3 chances to win on Premium and 3 on Deliverability, but Premium always comes first.

 

[Hazlehead]

From their http://www.virgin.com/travel/news/50-reasons-to-sign-the-virgin-trains-e-petition

15. We give customers higher compensation when things do go wrong.

erm, no you do not.

Virgin charter:

If a delay to a Virgin train causes an hour or more delay to your journey (45 minutes in the case of a train on the London - Birmingham/Wolverhampton services) we will reimburse you with National Rail vouchers equal to 25% of the total.

Alternatively, if you are delayed on a Virgin train by more than two hours we will reimburse you with National Rail vouchers equal to the full price paid for the affected portion (outward/return) of the journey.

First Great Western

If your journey is delayed by more than an hour, we will compensate our customers, including Weekly Season Ticket Holders the full value in National Rail vouchers, of the part of the journey, which was delayed, i.e. 50% of the cost of a return, and 100% in case of a single ticket. If you are delayed in excess of two hours, we will compensate customers the full cost of your ticket.

East Coast

Customers delayed on East Coast services between 30 and 59 minutes will receive compensation of at least 50% of the cost of a single ticket or at least 50% of the cost of either portion of a return ticket (by 'portion' we mean either the outward or the return part of a return ticket).

Customers delayed on East Coast services between 60 and 119 minutes will receive compensation of at least 100% of the cost of a single ticket or at least 100% of the cost of either portion of a return ticket (by 'portion' we mean either the outward or the return part of a return ticket).

Customers delayed on East Coast services for 120 minutes or longer will receive compensation of at least 100% of the cost of a single ticket or at least 100% of the cost of a return ticket (i.e. both ways, not just one way).

That's because First and East coast use the new delay repay system but virgin don't because they are an original privatisation franchise so back then the compensation system was different

 

[DarloRich]

Each Deliverability criterion has its own weighting, which goes towards the overall score. The Premium is the Premium, and if it's high enough, will win - providing you have achieved a minimum Deliverability score.

That is what i thought - thanks for the clarification.

If the Premium is higher, but not high enough to win at the first hurdle, then, and only then, will Deliverability scores be compared. On ICWC this didn't happen. Even if it did, for it to decide the contest, the better score would have to be 10% higher than the next best of those bids still in competition. If not it goes back to premium, but with the bar halved; then back to deliverability; and then one more round. So there are 3 chances to win on Premium and 3 on Deliverability, but Premium always comes first.

I was not aware there was a potential for three rounds - Intresting

 

[ainsworth74]

Does the petition not have to be heard by law?

No it will be considered for debate at this point but seeing as parliament is not in session that debate (even if it was considered for one) could not be for several weeks.

If First do get to run the franchise, they won't be able to cope and will see it handed back in 2013/2014.

And this suggestion is based on...

That's because First and East coast use the new delay repay system but virgin don't because they are an original privatisation franchise so back then the compensation system was different

Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that they're trying to claim that their compensation scheme is more generous than others which is plainly not true.

 

[Furrball]

That's because First and East coast use the new delay repay system but virgin don't because they are an original privatisation franchise so back then the compensation system was different

Does not change the fact that their statement is incorrect

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The petition asking the government to reconsider awarding the franchise to First has topped 100,000 signatures which means it will be debated in Parliament.

And this forum has now clocked up 100 pages talking about it!
It will be nice when sanity returns (Wednesday 29th, perhaps?).

 

[swt_passenger]

I am saying we need to see the weighting behind each section of the tender criteria of which premium and deliverability are two sperate items.

The weightings for DfT's assesments of the ten delivery plans seem to be in the ITT, at section 4. The whole section's gobbledook to me, but should answer part of your question?

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publicatio...se-itt/invitation-to-tender-main-document.pdf

 

[davido39]

I do feel sorry for Virgin losing their buisness this is it for them now they havent got any more enterprises milking us for money.
I will spend the next 12 months paying ridiculous amounts for virgin media broadband!

If virgin are going to struggle because of this they deserve it. Who bases their buisness on continually winning fixed term contracts!

There's always BT, SKY, PlusNet, Post Office, the list goes on, sorry but in my opinion complaining about your broadband service is not a viable exude to say Virgin are milking you dry. Oh I forgot, there is always Talk Talk! By far one of the worst for customer satisfaction!

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Does not change the fact that their statement is incorrect

At least half of their 50 reasons were incorrect or at the very least extremely subjective

 

[YorkshireBear]

There's always BT, SKY, PlusNet, Post Office, the list goes on, sorry but in my opinion complaining about your broadband service is not a viable exude to say Virgin are milking you dry. Oh I forgot, there is always Talk Talk! By far one of the worst for customer satisfaction!

Left talk talk, they are the worst of the worst.
Unfortunately i live in a student house, 5 of us. 4 to 1 as they all want it and i dont believe in kicking up a fuss because i lost.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At least half of their 50 reasons were incorrect or at the very least extremely subjective

50 were incorrect the rest were extremely subjective! granted maybe they had 1 or 2 facts in their

 

[jon0844]

Off topic but TalkTalk may have lousy phone support but if you go on their excellent forum you'll get very personal attention from very knowledgeable staff.

As a result, I actually prefer TalkTalk to others. I hate phoning anyone about problems as it takes forever, if it gets fixed at all.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Off topic but TalkTalk may have lousy phone support but if you go on their excellent forum you'll get very personal attention from very knowledgeable staff.

As a result, I actually prefer TalkTalk to others. I hate phoning anyone about problems as it takes forever, if it gets fixed at all.

While my mobile was with them for repair they racked up a 120 pund bill by accidentally sending into text madness.
Promised a refund and it never came, they said they couldnt redfund as it wasn't their phone.
I nearly punched the bloke in the shop. He said tough its your phone. Safe to say everything i had with them was cancelled immediately, lost emsleves 45 a month.

 

[PR1Berske]

Does the petition not have to be heard by law?

There's something that the Government are hiding, and Virgin obviously know about it otherwise they would not of bothered with the petition.

If First do get to run the franchise, they won't be able to cope and will see it handed back in 2013/2014.

Who needs Parliament when someone on the Internet knows so much for free :roll:

 

[willc789]

I've just had a scroll down the FGW page looking at the comments regarding the WC franchise and I'm simply staggered at the vendetta people have against First despite them not even turning a wheel yet! Many of the comments are boarderline on pure aggression towards the company. Personally I dont envy the PR firm given the task of turning the opinions round!! I'm frequently having to bite my tongue and not comment on those facebook comments given the instant assumptons of them.

 

[Nym]

Since I'm moving soon I was thinking of moving away from VM, but having looked at numerous other providers, no-one can do unlimited download for the price that Virgin manages...

 

[Wolfie]

When First got the TL/GN franchise they were very quick to set up a site purely for staff to explain what was going to happen. I presume they've done so for the WCML one too.

But what is Virgin doing if it isn't telling staff what happens? That it will be business as usual for full time staff (TUPE) and so on. Telling the people on contracts that expire who to speak to (First) on whether they'll be extended etc.

It seems that they're quite happy to have staff fear for their future to get them to support Virgin's campaign. If so, that's an awful abuse and something the media should look at.

Having had staff inolved in a TUPE transfer, albeit not on the railways, I have to say you are being premature. UNTIL such time as First and DfT have a signed contract Virgin cannot be sure what will happen to staff; the previous First activity you refer to after winning other franchises to presumably also came after such a contract was signed.....

 

[bnm]

Since I'm moving soon I was thinking of moving away from VM, but having looked at numerous other providers, no-one can do unlimited download for the price that Virgin manages...

My unlimited download with BE Broadband knocks VM out the park. £10.21 a month, totally unlimited. Not like VM with their traffic management policy. An adequate 9Mb connection. Yes that's slower than I can get with VM through fibre optic but it's less than half the price of their cheapest 20mb standalone. Then there's VM line rental. That brings the broadband price down a bit, but at around £15 a month it's a lot more than I pay to Primus Telecom (£9.19).

 

[jon0844]

Then perhaps Virgin should stop messing around and let First sign for the benefit of the staff?

First will have dealt with staff transfers many times so I doubt there's much to worry about. Do they have a reputation for sacking loads of staff for no reason? Not that I know of.

If First was going to sack everyone, I'd possibly sign the petition but the transport business (especially an Intercity operation) requires staff.

 

[Pen Mill]

Personally I dont envy the PR firm given the task of turning the opinions round!! I'm frequently having to bite my tongue and not comment on those facebook comments given the instant assumptons of them.

I think you under-estimate the movement of time and mood.
Nobody will even remember what West Coast Franchise was.
People just like pouring out bile for no reason at all and they've found an easy target . .

 

[Realfish]

Having had staff inolved in a TUPE transfer, albeit not on the railways, I have to say you are being premature. UNTIL such time as First and DfT have a signed contract Virgin cannot be sure what will happen to staff; the previous First activity you refer to after winning other franchises to presumably also came after such a contract was signed.....

Absolutely correct Wolfie. The TUPE timings and processes needs to be followed to the letter, on pain of breaching employment regulation.

 

[Morgsie]

The petition will be considered by the Backbench Business Committee and it may not be debated

 

[Simon11]

First will most likely use its existing resources for example it support in aberdeen, hence there may be jobs going at west coast. This way first can save money by economies of scale.

However it is rather frustration! Once had an it problem, however your not allowed to contact the it department, even if they are the floor below you! You therefore had to call them up when your in london and their in aberdeen! Then what makes it worse, is when they say you have to make the request online instead of calling, of which this goes to the same people!

Also during virgin's franchise, similarly to how first will be they got rid of staff when they were no longer needed. When I worked there, after a year a department with 6-8 staff has disapeared.

 

[Manchester77]

dont know if its already been posted but:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19366438
article about petion reaching 100,000

 

[WatcherZero]

Lib Dem party have come out in favour of Parliamentary debate.

 

[Geezertronic]

Lib Dem party have come out in favour of Parliamentary debate.

From the BBC News link above, it's one Lib Dem MP and not the whole Lib Dem party

 

[WatcherZero]

From the BBC News link above, it's one Lib Dem MP and not the whole Lib Dem party

Hes the President of the party

 

[Geezertronic]

Hes the President of the party

Makes no odds, so far he's still a single voice and is allowed to voice his own opinion which might not be that of the party as a whole

 

[Morgsie]

As a Lib Dem I fully support Tim Farron's call for a Parliamentary debate on the ICWC Franchise and I want the Party to look at systematic reform of the Railways

 

[NSEFAN]

If anything needs to be debated, it's the franchising process (something which needs to be looked at, IMHO).

That said, I don't think Virgin should now be assigned the franchise, especially given the childish tactics they've resorted to recently.

 

[HH]

Nice statement from First. Not that it will make any difference to the Branson fanboys.