• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

RPI's ineffective. What can they do?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
13 Apr 2011
Messages
623
Location
Helsby
I was queuing at Manchester Victoria this morning for the ticket check off the platform. As regular users of Victoria know, the ticket checks are split into two queues, one for entering the platforms and one for exiting.
Whilst the rest of us queued patiently, a young man just walked straight past the RPI manning the platform entry barrier ignoring all the instructions to join the correct queue and without showing a ticket just walked out of the station. The RPI did nothing.
This is most frustrating. Surely the job of RPI staff is to enforce ticket checks on all passengers, not just those who are compliant with queuing etiquette?
My guess is that the RPI didn't fancy the confrontation but in general, what power does an RPI have to apprehend a non compliant passenger?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
That's highly annoying. Were these G4S staff?
 

ANorthernGuard

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2010
Messages
2,662
I think they are Northern but before I am pilloried I am not sure.

They will be G4S staff with maybe the odd Northern Guard Q bashing, G$S cannot touch anyone or prevent them from entering/leaving and dome people know this, simples....
 

Jonfun

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2007
Messages
1,254
Location
North West
They're not RPIs as such, they're simply ticket checkers employed by G4S. Whilst this one person may just have blatantly ignored them, I'd hazard a guess at what you didn't see was all the people walking through their barriers and just showing them something orange and being let through... :roll:
 

chuckles1066

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2010
Messages
361
They could try employing them at Filton Abbeywood.

There was massive fare-dodging going on in November 2010 when I first started using the railways and my return (for just a week) in June 2012 showed me that nothing had changed......in fact, it seemed to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous as I witnessed some guy take a "shortcut" across the tracks to avoid the uniforms on the bridge.
 

Monty

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2012
Messages
2,349
What would you like them to do? Rugby tackle then to the floor and force them to rejoin the queue? It also makes no difference if they were Railway employees or G4S, they do not have the power nor the training to restrain anyone physically. Besides if they did have the power people would only complain more about how they go around acting like the 'Gestapo'..
 

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
I imagine the risk assessment and perhaps the contract between the two companies will specifically exclude confrontation anyway!
 

Solent&Wessex

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2009
Messages
2,683
I think they are Northern but before I am pilloried I am not sure.


They are G4S Staff in Northern uniforms, and are spectacularly useless.

I was on a train into MCV once. A lad boarded the train at an unstaffed station, sat at the front and the guard never came round. Got to the barrier, and I was 2 people behind said lad. G4S asked to see his ticket. Lad just says "I left it on the train". G4S bloke just says "oh, ok then" and let him out. I don't know why they bother!
 

MidnightFlyer

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,857
If he was fare evading, he'd have got through showing his blood donor / bank / M&S Loyalty / golf club membership card anyway!

I have to be honest here, I'd rather Manchester Victoria be ticket gated, G4S there in my experience are pretty poor. I recall once going to the McDonalds above the station in the MEN Arena and leaving via the station entrance to there. I was asked for a valid rail ticket by a member of staff loitering outside, despite there being no indication of me actually being on a train there that day whatsoever!
 

Solent&Wessex

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2009
Messages
2,683
If he was fare evading, he'd have got through showing his blood donor card anyway!

I have to be honest here, I'd rather Manchester Victoria be ticket gated, G4S there in my experience are pretty poor. I recall once going to the McDonalds above the station in the MEN Arena and leaving via the station entrance to there. I was asked for a valid rail ticket by a member of staff loitering outside, despite there being no indication of me actually being on a train there that day whatsoever!

I notice they have recently taken to doing ticket checks on the overbridge too, where the steps come down from MEN and the entrance from the car park.

 
Joined
13 Apr 2011
Messages
623
Location
Helsby
Is it implausible that he's a colleague/other member of staff that they know by sight?

Well by the way they were hollering after him I doubt it.
It seems then that if you don't fancy paying for a ticket to MCV then unless the BTP are in attendance then you can walk through scot free! RPI's are ineffective unless you are compliant?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They are G4S Staff in Northern uniforms, and are spectacularly useless.

I was on a train into MCV once. A lad boarded the train at an unstaffed station, sat at the front and the guard never came round. Got to the barrier, and I was 2 people behind said lad. G4S asked to see his ticket. Lad just says "I left it on the train". G4S bloke just says "oh, ok then" and let him out. I don't know why they bother!

Apologies to any Northern staff, but if G4S are in Northern uniform then there is a chance of confusion.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,634
Having a physical fixed gateline with ticket barriers would stop people just walking out, but those are considered to be unpopular.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
Whilst the rest of us queued patiently, a young man just walked straight past the RPI manning the platform entry barrier ignoring all the instructions to join the correct queue and without showing a ticket just walked out of the station.

Well, you know what to do tomorrow morning. Just walk straight past the queue and egress via the ingress.

You have a ticket, you're prepared to show it on demand, you're doing nothing wrong but breaking the unwritten code of etiquette.

Those 3 minutes in a queue each morning add up to 15 minutes a week or almost 12 hours of your life every year that you'll never get back.
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
Well, you know what to do tomorrow morning. Just walk straight past the queue and egress via the ingress.

You have a ticket, you're prepared to show it on demand, you're doing nothing wrong but breaking the unwritten code of etiquette.

Those 3 minutes in a queue each morning add up to 15 minutes a week or almost 12 hours of your life every year that you'll never get back.

Indeed. There is absolutely no evidence as far as I can see that the person who walked out did not have a ticket.
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,574
Location
Glasgow
I think Northern's G4S team have become stricter than they used to be, at least in my experience. I say this for a few reasons:

-they are now securing the platforms at Manchester Piccadilly by the doors to the concourse.
-the last two times I have exited Piccadilly, the G4S inspector gave my ticket more than cursory glance and was retaining tickets where appropriate.
-the G4S inspector on the bridge at Preston asked to see my railcard last week.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
20,382
Location
0035
Having a physical fixed gateline with ticket barriers would stop people just walking out...
I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is not the case. Those who don't have a ticket and don't want to pay at automatic gates just double gate, push through the barriers or jump over.
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,644
I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is not the case. Those who don't have a ticket and don't want to pay at automatic gates just double gate, push through the barriers or jump over.

I can vouch that this is the case! And RPI's won't go chasing after people either! One of the first things in the trainining for the role is conflict avoidance at South West Trains!

The hardcore fare evaders will always escape unless there is BTP presence (or security staff) to prevent the person from leaving the station!
 

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
...And even then the cost-benefit in most cases will not win.
 

district

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2011
Messages
1,098
Location
SE16
Ticket barriers are good for the opportunist fare evaders though - those who will pay if forced to before travel but are willing to travel without payment if, say, barriers are open at origin and there are no barriers at destination.

In my opinion, the only real way to tackle serious 'organised' fare evasion would be intelligence operations (where evidence is collated for a considerable time before approaching the suspect) with the TOC and the BTP.
 

calc7

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
2,097
Ticket barriers are good for the opportunist fare evaders though - those who will pay if forced to before travel but are willing to travel without payment if, say, barriers are open at origin and there are no barriers at destination.

In my opinion, the only real way to tackle serious 'organised' fare evasion would be intelligence operations (where evidence is collated for a considerable time before approaching the suspect) with the TOC and the BTP.

Regarding this, is anybody privy to the capital cost of barrier installation and any ongoing operating costs?
 

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
And no evidence he did. :-x

Why should there be? I've travelled lots of times and not needed to show a ticket anywhere.

The point is that no one can assume that the person was a fare evader simply because they walked out without showing a ticket to anyone in authority.
 

class303

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2011
Messages
391
Why should there be? I've travelled lots of times and not needed to show a ticket anywhere.

The point is that no one can assume that the person was a fare evader simply because they walked out without showing a ticket to anyone in authority.

wrong. i can, and do, assume he didn't have a ticket.
 

cuccir

Established Member
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
3,659
Whether or not he had a ticket, he was still in breach of railway bylaws presumably?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top