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Who do I have to show my ticket to?

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Tibbs

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I travel everyday from Euston and very occasionally the LM train I use leaves from a platform (say Platform 12) that shares a ramp with a Virgin Train. Sometimes there are VT ticket checkers on the ramp.

Now, if I'm gettting the LM train on the other platform do the VT ticket inspectors have a right to ask for my ticket if I'm not using their service?
 
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Max

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Probably, if there is some kind of agreement in place between LM and VT about revenue protection for each other's services. At my local station Northern frequently do barrier checks on behalf of other TOCs. I believe that it also states in the by-laws that you must produce your ticket to a member of railway staff if they request it too? Although I am not currently in a position to look that up.
 

sonic2009

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Taken from the byelaws : http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws.pdf

(17).2 (2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity
when asked to do so by an authorised person.


“authorised person” means:
(i) a person acting in the course of his duties who:
(a) is an employee or agent of an Operator, or
(b) any other person authorised by an Operator, or
(ii) any constable, acting in the execution of his duties upon or in
connection with the railway;
 

SickyNicky

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NRCoC 22 does not restrict the inspection to the train company you travelled with, so I agree with the above.

NRCoC said:
22. Inspection of tickets
You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification in accordance with Condition 15. If you do not, you will be treated as having joined a train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply. If an Electronic Ticket cannot be displayed, you will be treated as if you were unable to hand over for inspection a valid ticket.

 

pethadine82

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Out of interest before Peterborough became barriered, East Coast and FCC did various checking duties.

Can East Coast issues penalty fares on behalf of FCC?
 

sonic2009

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Yes, but is a VT Ticket inspector authorised to inspect an LM ticket?

Yes as this person would be acting in their duties to check you have or hold a valid ticket to travel.

And they work for an operator of the railway.
 

sonic2009

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Is that because they're ticket inspectors in general, or because VT has a reciprocal arrangement with LM?

It's because they are ticket inspectors, they have a right to ask anyone for a ticket on private property.
 

Solent&Wessex

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It's because they are ticket inspectors, they have a right to ask anyone for a ticket ...

Agreed. It is quite common for TOCs to check tickets at stations, and that includes passengers from other companies. At Leeds, for example, the gateline and ticket inspection staff work for Northern, but they end up checking tickets for First TPE, Arriva XC, East Coast, Northern, Stagecoach EMT. At Stockport Virgin do the ticket checks on behalf of TPE, NT, EMT, Virgin etc.

A member of staff could not just jump on another TOCs train and start checking tickets though, that is different.
 

notadriver

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Could a passenger refuse to show the driver their ticket for example on a DOO train?
 

sonic2009

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Agreed see post 4, but I've never seen G4S check Virgin tickets or XC at Manchester Piccadilly.
 

KingBBoogaloo

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They may not be checking tickets on the platforms that Virgin and XC use but they are still checking all the tickets on the other platforms, irrespective of TOC.

As for on-board checks, the check can be carried out by the staff from one TOC even though they are on another TOCs train. However this will be by prior arrangment between the TOCs involved.
 

island

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Out of interest before Peterborough became barriered, East Coast and FCC did various checking duties.

Can East Coast issues penalty fares on behalf of FCC?

I imagine EC would not have any authorised collectors.

At Kings Cross one can request to be let through the barrier in order to join a First Hull Trains or Grand Central service without showing a ticket, as both operators offer the full range of tickets on board.
 

jon0844

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Could a passenger refuse to show the driver their ticket for example on a DOO train?

How many drivers would ever ask to see a ticket? They drive the trains and really don't need to care about who has a ticket or not.

I say that based on living near London where many trains are DOO and drivers don't mix with the passengers generally. I apologise if in other regions, there are drivers that do any sort of revenue duties.
 

trentside

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How many drivers would ever ask to see a ticket? They drive the trains and really don't need to care about who has a ticket or not.

I say that based on living near London where many trains are DOO and drivers don't mix with the passengers generally. I apologise if in other regions, there are drivers that do any sort of revenue duties.

The only example I could think of where driving staff check tickets would be on the PPM between Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town. When I've used the shuttle both staff took turns driving and checking tickets, but they are obviously employed by PPM not LM so the arrangements are different!
 

notadriver

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How many drivers would ever ask to see a ticket? They drive the trains and really don't need to care about who has a ticket or not.

I say that based on living near London where many trains are DOO and drivers don't mix with the passengers generally. I apologise if in other regions, there are drivers that do any sort of revenue duties.

Hypothetically they could ask in an attempt to get undesirables removed from the train?
 

Roylang

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The only example I could think of where driving staff check tickets would be on the PPM between Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town. When I've used the shuttle both staff took turns driving and checking tickets, but they are obviously employed by PPM not LM so the arrangements are different!

Being pedantic, the Stourbridge Town line is operated by staff employed by Pre Metro Opertaions Limited, not Parry People Movers.

So not obviously ;)

Roy
 

Deerfold

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Being pedantic, the Stourbridge Town line is operated by staff employed by Pre Metro Opertaions Limited, not Parry People Movers.

So not obviously ;)

Roy

Wouldn't normally point this sort of thing out, but if we *are* being pedantic isn't it "Operations"?
 

34D

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How many drivers would ever ask to see a ticket? They drive the trains and really don't need to care about who has a ticket or not.

I say that based on living near London where many trains are DOO and drivers don't mix with the passengers generally. I apologise if in other regions, there are drivers that do any sort of revenue duties.

I once witnessed an FCC driver ask to see the ticket (at St Neots, going south) of a black male who had just pulled the communication alarm, and he produced a watford-london ticket for 2 weeks before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Out of interest before Peterborough became barriered, East Coast and FCC did various checking duties.

Can East Coast issues penalty fares on behalf of FCC?

Peterborough is now barriered :o when did this happen?
 

yorkie

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Hypothetically they could ask in an attempt to get undesirables removed from the train?
If the undesirable is breaking a byelaw then surely you can ask them to leave on that basis?

As for whether you're allowed to check tickets, I'd suggest asking your line manager that! I'd expect some training to be necessary (unless it's simply a case of checking that there is some sort of ticket held, to be accepted irrespective of routeing & validity).
 
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To keep costs down, sharing staff duties can only be a good thing.
Pre Nationalization, the railway companies shared many facilities.
In Launceston LSWR & GWR (from 1916) shared a back to back LSWR signal box for the 2 separate stations, and the LSWR ticket office.
I don't know how practical it would be today, but in a few areas even being able to occasionally borrow drivers?
 

323235

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At Stockport Virgin do the ticket checks on behalf of TPE, NT, EMT, Virgin etc.

The G4S staff at Stockport work for Northern. Virgin may still provide staff in the morning to do the Platform 1 and 2 ticket checks but Northern contracted staff do the majority.

G4S are very much needed after 1930 at night when the ticket office closes because there is no other way of buying tickets by cash before boarding as none of the ticket machines on the station accept cash or sell Evening Rangers.
 

ainsworth74

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I don't know how practical it would be today, but in a few areas even being able to occasionally borrow drivers?

It does happen but only on a planned basis, for example, TPE drivers and guards operate most (if not all) Northern services between Hull and Scarborough. There's a similar arrangement on the other side of the Humber for the Barton services. But those are long standing planned arrangements. I don't think it would be that practical on a short notice, adhock basis to cover for driver unavailability due to sickness for example.
 
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