Incident at Riddlesdown (22/03/13)

[SPADTrap]

Obviously nobody wants this type of incident to occur and kind words are reasonable, but what on earth is your comment about SPADTrap, "I can't help but feel a little guilt .."

Guilt about what ? Did you put this woman on the track ? Diana Syndrome doesn't help anyone at all, if she chose to kill her child that's her business and HER guilt

Well what drives someone to do something like that..I didn't mean me personally, but more humans completely..was something missed that could have helped? I don't know, don't go thinking I'll loose sleep over it, but it brings home lots of emotions when you think about it.

I don't know how to explain it, the whole thing is sad. Maybe not guilt I'm feeling..

Yep it's all her business until everyone sees it and the driver gets a real intimate front row seat to her end - well said...

OR not!

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Well said, everyone is offering condolences to the families of the deceased but no-one has mentioned the driver and others who may have witnessed this selfish act. .

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Would never, ever happen. Unfortunately in some cases you cant stop things like this at stations like this.

The Daily Mail are "reporting" that it is a suicide and that she dragged her child with her into the path of the train - this is incredibly shocking and very saddening to hear, apparently the driver is, understandably, very shaken up.

Such a horrific incident and one i would never, ever want repeated in any situation.

Beyond words. Thoughts to all involved especially the driver.

Extremely distressing. The third fatality in two days on the railways. Whilst it is very sad for the families of the deceased, it is indeed even more distressing for the drivers who witness the objects and people on the tracks that thay cannot do anything to avoid. My thoughts are also with them.

I would think the reason it took so long is because its counted as a suicide and murder. Such a distressing incident my thoughts go out to all those involved and especially the driver involved.

Just for your benefit - it is also mentioned in the BBC reports etc. People are thinking of them!

I've learned how selfish by very definition really isn't the word.

 

[Southwest]

Soooooooo you didn't read any of the posts here then? I'd quote the people including myself who did mention the driver but you'd probably miss it.

and then decided to list them all anyway, must be a slack Friday afternoon in Spads house.

Well what drives someone to do something like that..I didn't mean me personally, but more humans completely..was something missed that could have helped?

In our families case there was no warning, we knew he was a depressive but there was absolutely no hint that he would end up doing what he did. What we were told by the shrinks was that in the vast majority of these kind of cases, it is premeditated. They may not leave a note but it is something that they have thought through.

 

[Phirstman]

One of the more distressing incidents I've read about, particularly with the child involved.

I can't even think to imagine how horrible this is for the driver, passengers or people on the platform.

Condolences to all involved.

 

[SPADTrap]

I obviously did.



In our families case there was no warning, we knew he was a depressive but there was absolutely no hint that he would end up doing what he did. What we were told by the shrinks was that in the vast majority of these kind of cases, it is premeditated. They may not leave a note but it is something that they have thought through.

Sorry..positing it like that made me sound like a idiot! Didn't mean the tone.


That's the trouble though, it seems we absolutely cannot understand the suicidal thoughts somebody might have which makes it impossible to predict or help. I don't think this individual was thinking about the others who could be involved though, do you really think she thought of the driver or the commuters when she decided to take her child with her too? I have no doubt this was something premeditated which makes it even sadder.

 

[ainsworth74]

Suicide and its after effects are very emotional topics. I would ask that discussion over the selfishness of the actions of this individual is not conducted on this thread.

 

[bnm]

The system would be designed to only be used in the direst emergencies. The driver needs to stop ASAP if a major obstruction or a person is on the track. They would probably be rather more traumatised if they actually hit somebody, whereas a signal at Caution might just possibly allow them to slow down and stop short of any hazard or a Danger signal protecting it. I appreciate having Caution thrown on a driver/train would not be a nice experience, especially at high speeds, but if a person is on the track without authority, the whole situation would most certainly require any train to be stopped, as now.

Most people who chose to commit suicide on the railway will jump in front if the train at the last moment. It's very rare that they will stand there and wait for a train. In nearly all cases the train will have passed the last signal before the person takes to the track.

 

[tsr]

Most people who chose to commit suicide on the railway will jump in front if the train at the last moment. It's very rare that they will stand there and wait for a train. In nearly all cases the train will have passed the last signal before the person takes to the track.

You are, of course, correct. But there are exceptions. Also, drunk people or other trespassers may well wander around or walk down the track when a train is not immediately due. They may not be suicidal, but the line would likely need to be blocked to traffic to allow their safe removal.

On a somewhat separate note, there has been a trespass incident at Eastbourne this afternoon, plus a (suspected?) trespass at Whitton. So not a good day for this sort of thing, all in all.

 

[amcluesent]

Reports indicated that Oettinger had been suffering from depression, Oettinger had posted messages on Facebook about her troubles - "I hope and pray there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am more then certain docs don't know what they are prescribing," she wrote in two posts in December.

Donna Oettinger, 41, with her son Zaki. RIP

 

[RPI]

After reading the press report on this one it really is a sad incident, it seems that suicides on the railway are almost commonplace now but this one is particularly sad.

 

[tra1nsp0tter]

Very, very sad incident. Thoughts to all involved. What gets me the most however is, why the child?....that actually makes me quite sad & also angry thinking about it, the poor wee thing
Apologies if this upsets or offends anyone, it is not meant to.

 

[Zoidberg]

Very, very sad incident. Thoughts to all involved. What gets me the most however is, why the child?....that actually makes me quite sad & also angry thinking about it, the poor wee thing
Apologies if this upsets or offends anyone, it is not meant to.

My thoughts too

 

[ushawk]

On a somewhat separate note, there has been a trespass incident at Eastbourne this afternoon, plus a (suspected?) trespass at Whitton. So not a good day for this sort of thing, all in all.

The incident at Eastbourne was a drunk falling onto the line as a train was pulling in, trapping the person between the platform and the train, no severe injuries thankfully.

 

[tsr]

The incident at Eastbourne was a drunk falling onto the line as a train was pulling in, trapping the person between the platform and the train, no severe injuries thankfully.

Personally, I was aware of the situation, but thanks for clarifying it to the other forum members. Apparently staff were rather angry as the victim involved was supposedly (so I hear - correct me if I'm wrong, please) entirely at fault. It could have been much worse.

Another incident giving out a stark message not to get too drunk and lose control of your actions whilst on railway premises (though I'd rather people in that state don't drive or cycle around, either...).

 

[Zoidberg]

Personally, I was aware of the situation, but thanks for clarifying it to the other forum members. ...

I wonder why you did not share the information. Was it supposed to be a secret?

 

[455driver]

victim involved was supposedly (so I hear - correct me if I'm wrong, please) entirely at fault.

Dont worry some ambulance chasing lawyer will get him some compo because the railways were negligent in their "duty of care" or some other b*****!

People responsible for their own behaviour and safety, honestly! :roll:

 

[swj99]

I went on a suicide awareness course once, many years ago, which was run by the Samaritans. It was extremely well presented, but despite this, and other training I did at around the same time, I don’t think it’s really possible most of the time to stop someone comitting suicide, despite the best will in the world. The main message I took from the course was that if someone is determined to end their own life, they probably will, one way or another, sooner or later, even if it takes more than one attempt. Very often, by the time anyone realizes what the person had intended, it’s too late. Sometimes there are no prior warnings, and even in cases where there are, it can still be virtually impossible to predict, let alone prevent the event actually happening.

Criticising those who choose to end their life underneath or in front of a train doesn't serve any useful purpose at all, and almost certainly won't prevent anyone else from doing it, because the other important consideration, and one which has quite rightly already been mentioned here, is that when a person ends their life, they are in many cases not in a state of mind where they are likely to perceive the effect that their death, and the manner of their death will have on anyone else who may be involved, those who may witness it, and those they leave behind. Complaining about suicidal people being 'selfish' is just a way to waste mental energy by attempting to control the uncontrollable.

My thoughts are with all who have been affected by this tragic incident.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Just heard on Heart FM news that witnesses stated the woman laid down on the track with the child in her arms. Very sad indeed.

Ben

Oh my goodness me. That's one of the saddest, most desperate thing's I've read in a long time. If only the poor woman had chosen to seek help, there is no problem in the world that can't be solved. Very, very sad :cry:

 

[tsr]

I wonder why you did not share the information. Was it supposed to be a secret?

No. I was going to post it imminently, as soon as I found out.

 

[ushawk]

Personally, I was aware of the situation, but thanks for clarifying it to the other forum members. Apparently staff were rather angry as the victim involved was supposedly (so I hear - correct me if I'm wrong, please) entirely at fault. It could have been much worse.

Another incident giving out a stark message not to get too drunk and lose control of your actions whilst on railway premises (though I'd rather people in that state don't drive or cycle around, either...).

Not to mention a lot of angry passengers as the station had to be shut for 45 minutes and caused delays all along from Brighton to Ashford and still is causing problems now. The victim was drunk and stumbled and fell, how they were allowed access onto the platforms is beyond me, unless the barriers were open.

Fortunately it wasn't a suicide attempt, just someone who had too much to drink, hopefully they would have learnt their lessons from their injuries which has hospitalised them.

 

[martybabes]

Dont worry some ambulance chasing lawyer will get him some compo because the railways were negligent in their "duty of care" or some other b*****!

Now I may have to dispel another myth here. It is the client who comes to the lawyer, not the other way around. You've been watching too many American films!

Oh, and btw, contributory negligence will knock a fair bit off his compo anyway!

 

[soil]

Now I may have to dispel another myth here. It is the client who comes to the lawyer, not the other way around. You've been watching too many American films!

I thought they advertised during Jeremy Kyle.

 

[Clip]

Tragic. Truly tragic for all involved. :cry:

 

[Flying Snail]

Now I may have to dispel another myth here. It is the client who comes to the lawyer, not the other way around. You've been watching too many American films!

Oh, and btw, contributory negligence will knock a fair bit off his compo anyway!

It's not the client who fills the spaces between chav fights on Jeremy Kyle with pleadings for anyone who has had anything happen to them that can be twisted to blame somebody with deep pockets to call them - on a No Win No Fee Basis!

No, I think the Americanism Ambulance Chaser is entirely appropriate for those parasites.

 

[A-driver]

You are, of course, correct. But there are exceptions. Also, drunk people or other trespassers may well wander around or walk down the track when a train is not immediately due. They may not be suicidal, but the line would likely need to be blocked to traffic to allow their safe removal.
.

You don't need a hugely expensive system though (just reverting a signal won't do any good as the train may have passed that signal and even if it hasn't, it still may not be able to stop in time.

Many Platforms have emergency help points, mobile phones are widely avaliable to dial 999 from and the 999 handler can block the line via network rail, phone boxes outside stations etc.

 

[Zoidberg]

No. I was going to post it imminently, as soon as I found out.

Ah, sorry.

 

[tsr]

Ah, sorry.

Nah, don't apologise - if I'm honest I should've remembered to post!

 

[455driver]

Now I may have to dispel another myth here. It is the client who comes to the lawyer, not the other way around. You've been watching too many American films!

So I have never had a phone call from <a solicitor> after an alleged car accident, or never had a phone call <from another lot a few years later> asking for some information to "update my claim" (there wasnt a claim) then!

Thank you for letting me know it was just a dream! :roll:

 

[PaulC1]

Thanks to many of you for recognising how horrific such an incident is for train drivers and witnesses. I know; I was unfortunate to be one of the commuters on the platform yesterday morning. I did not witness the actual event thank goodness otherwise I'd be heavily sedated right now. However, I saw the chilling aftermath which was enough to unsettle me. I'm still not myself and I'm very upset. We all hear of railway suicides but the unusual feature of this diabolical event is the involvement of a poor innocent child; that is something I think we all struggle with.

Think also about the unsung heroes; the emergency services. No amount of experience or training can prepare you for that. It was enough to reduce a senior policeman to tears.

 

[martybabes]

Thanks to many of you for recognising how horrific such an incident is for train drivers and witnesses. I know; I was unfortunate to be one of the commuters on the platform yesterday morning. I did not witness the actual event thank goodness otherwise I'd be heavily sedated right now. However, I saw the chilling aftermath which was enough to unsettle me. I'm still not myself and I'm very upset. We all hear of railway suicides but the unusual feature of this diabolical event is the involvement of a poor innocent child; that is something I think we all struggle with.

Think also about the unsung heroes; the emergency services. No amount of experience or training can prepare you for that. It was enough to reduce a senior policeman to tears.

I think it would be more appropriate to reflect on these words than to argue about lawyers' fees and advertisements.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think it would be more appropriate to reflect on these words than to argue about lawyers' fees and advertisements.

Thank you for making this posting, as those other matters should be argued in a different thread , which can then be used to address such matters.