£2.50 extra on Oyster for 1 more stop (into Zone 1)

[parkender102]

You can try calling the Oyster helpline - they're the people who deal with that sort of issue. their new number is 0343 222 1234. Calls cost the same as calling an 01 or 02 number (even from mobiles) and lines are open 8am - 8pm

Thanks for the info - just spoke to a very nice man at TFL who has charged me for Hampton Court to Clapham Jct only - £2.40. Refund appears after next touch-in between tomorrow and 8 days later.

 

[Matt E Raffles]

I don't think it can be called an NR-only fare when it's clearly not an NR-only journey. It may be how the fare was derived in the back office, but TfL clearly list separate fare tables for NR-only journeys and for mixed-mode TfL and NR journeys - implying that the derivation of the fare might change at any point in the future.

But we're splitting hairs here...

... and while we’re splitting hairs ...

As you are suggesting, all of the journeys wholly on the London Overground are indeed configured for Oyster as TfL local fares, even when the actual price charged appears to be on the NR local tariff. In this way TfL is able to maintain its policy of not charging 5-10 year olds for travel on its services, for example.

The London Overground local journeys which appear to be on the NR local pricing structure are so priced to ensure that they are not undercut by longer journeys along the same corridor that are charged on the (sometimes cheaper) NR tariff. So, for example, Shoreditch High Street to New Cross (which would be priced at £2.80 adult peak on the normal TfL structure) is priced to be no more expensive than Shoreditch High Street to St. Johns (£2.40). In other words, the pricing is cheapest of the TfL local and NR local scales across all fare types. Shoreditch High Street to New Cross Gate, on the other hand, is priced at £2.80, presumably as there are no unfavourable comparisons to be made with Brockley which is also on the TfL scale.

Similar things occur elsewhere on the rail network where TfL fares apply. For example, London Liverpool Street to Tottenham Hale is priced at £3.10 adult peak (rather than £3.20 which is the normal TfL local fare).

 

[maniacmartin]

Very informative Matt E Raffles

 

[londonbridge]

Of course TfL's advertising is so great at extolling the simplicity of their pricing system that most people in London genuinely think that the only things that determines the fare are the time of day and zones travelled through. Many people are paying much more for mixed-mode when there is a feasible alternative because they simply don't know there are different rates depending on the mode.

.

That's the whole point. I get that there are different rates depending on whether you've used tfl or NR but the layman won't know that, they'll just think 'both journeys are zone A, B, C, D' (or whatever) so why have I been charged different fares'??

 

[Starmill]

Of course TfL's advertising is so great at extolling the simplicity of their pricing system that most people in London genuinely think that the only things that determines the fare are the time of day and zones travelled through.

Remind me what the whole point of a zonal system was again? That seems like a reasonable layman's interpretation to me, but it doesn't surprise me that its an oversimplification.

 

[transmanche]

I get that there are different rates depending on whether you've used tfl or NR but the layman won't know that, they'll just think 'both journeys are zone A, B, C, D' (or whatever) so why have I been charged different fares'??

That'll be because the TOCs (with notable exceptions) have had to be dragged kicking and screaming to accept zonal pricing and Oyster cards in the first place.

The more routes that move under the TfL umbrella, the fewer anomalies there will be.

 

[bicbasher]

Shoreditch on weekdays is heavily used by commuters though. . It might seem a bit odd to someone who visits on a Saturday, but virtually the whole train (seated and standing) alights there at 0800 - 08:30am, and walks to the finance district near Liverpool St station. ELL trains are totally at capacity, so they can charge through the nose!

I always thought the station was oversized with stupidly wide staircases, but now I realise that they were the right decision.

Considering the signalling problems on Monday at London Bridge which led to most of the evening peak services cancelled along the Southern section of the ELL, I was on the ELL from Highbury & Islington to Crystal Palace during the evening peak and the train was rammed from the start with Shoreditch High Street even busier than usual, presumably with Southern customers who decided to use the station instead of walking across London Bridge from the City along with Canada Water.

 

[Be3G]

Similar things occur elsewhere on the rail network where TfL fares apply. For example, London Liverpool Street to Tottenham Hale is priced at £3.10 adult peak (rather than £3.20 which is the normal TfL local fare).

It seems, however, that that only works for journeys arriving at Tottenham Hale by National Rail, not London Underground, as the fare to the LU validators is still £3.20. Which means that there's an anomaly in the system: passengers travelling from Liverpool Street to Northumberland Park via Seven Sisters will be charged 10p more than the single fare finder suggests, as they'll have to touch out at Tottenham Hale LU with a charge of £3.20 en-route.

(There probably aren't many passengers who go that route, but it's not as nonsensical as it might seem, as most Northumberland Park trains have originated from Stratford.)

I remember repeatedly getting stung at TOM with a similar issue a few years ago, and despite complaining (even to London TravelWatch who didn't bother responding) nothing was done at the time. It stems from the fact that an Oyster seemingly unable to ever revise a fare downwards when receiving new information, only upwards. So if, thanks to the differing Oyster fare scales, your through journey has a lower price than the journey from your origin to an en-route OSI, you're stuffed.

 

[yorkie]

It stems from the fact that an Oyster seemingly unable to ever revise a fare downwards when receiving new information, only upwards. So if, thanks to the differing Oyster fare scales, your through journey has a lower price than the journey from your origin to an en-route OSI, you're stuffed.

Yes, that's a good point. It means that some journeys cost more in one direction than the other. I had to get MikeWh to go through it with me a couple of times before I could get my head round it.

This forum is only going to get busier and busier if more PAYG smartcard systems are rolled out throughout the network. I also can't wait to see what happens when they all start interfacing with each other. It's going to be a right farce, and there will be anomalies galore.