FGW train stranded at Pewsey

[LateThanNever]

Greeflag, AA,RAC etc won't do you any good if are on a section of motorway closed by the police due to a collision or incident. My point which Goatboy has also missed, is that by choosing to travel long distance by rail, rather than road, provides you with a contract to get from a to b with the toc. Therefore you can complain and be compensated when things go wrong.

Quite so and fair enough re the contract for lateness but this was just a breakdown!

 

[dogs1234]

Thank you a-driver.
I would never open them but just knowing that I could helps me alot.

Can they be opened manually if the worse came to the worse?

Or does the driver have to open them automatically?

Thanks so much

 

[A-driver]

Enough for customers to complain in such a manner that they described as 'being treated like cattle'.

There also would have been toilets at a station. Elderly may not be able to hold themselves for as long as a perfectly healthy person would be able to.

Just noticed this from the article.



Urinating in a public space is a criminal offence. I'd say a field is a public space. I understand that this us just an accusation though.

What nonsense.

Passengers complain about being treated like cattle every morning on rush hour trains. I wouldn't read into it. The press are hardly going to focus on the quotes from people saying 'these things happen, the staff kept us informed and it wasn't that bad'.

There were toilets onboard. The flush may have stopped working but there is still a private room with a sink if nothing else so anyone that desperate could still relieve themselves without problem.

Don't be so silly about urinating in the woodland. They haven't done anything wrong, no ones going to prosecute them for it and of course they peed in the bushes at the side-find me a train driver who has never had a wee out the cab door, in the cess, against a signal post or up against the side of their train. Not news or amything to get excited or even oass comment about-A real literal case of 'do bears s*it in the woods' there.

 

[455driver]

Enough for customers to complain in such a manner that they described as 'being treated like cattle'.
There also would have been toilets at a station. Elderly may not be able to hold themselves for as long as a perfectly healthy person would be able to.
Just noticed this from the article.
Urinating in a public space is a criminal offence. I'd say a field is a public space. I understand that this us just an accusation though.

Answer these please, you seem to have missed them-

When did the supplies run out?
How long were the passengers without food or drink in their well lit, air conditioned carriages?

And another one-
Were all toilets on the train out of action?

I await your (ill informed, made up) reply with baited breath!

 

[Mojo]

There is NO provision in the rulebook for leaving failed vehicles on a running line.

You can only leave a vehicle in the section if the train has become divided and you can not recouple it, or as part of a shunting movement.

As I said somewhere upthread, there certainly used to be provision to leave a portion of the train behind (protected by detonators) if the whole lot couldn't proceed. Nowadays, having finally dug out the relevant bit of the Rule Book, it's only described in the context of an accidental division - detonators either side of the (secured!) rear portion, signalman advised and (on a TCB line) tail lamp attached to the rear of the front portion. Can't really see a problem with applying that in this case!

Although does the rule book used by Network Rail allow for a named senior officer to issue a rule book waiver (after having conducted a realtime risk assessment) in order to speed things along during an incident, in a similar manner to the LU rule book?

Does anyone else know if they can be opened manually?

Yes, as far as I'm aware most (all?) trains have emergency open handles fitted, the major exception being London Underground where the door release inside the car can only be released with a key (the only emergency exits "advertised" (for want of a better word) on LU stock is through the cabs).

 

[A-driver]

Emergency door releases can be opened by passengers in emergencies- they are basically fire exits so wouldn't be any good if the needed a key to unlock etc.

 

[1e10]

Supplies were available on board though.

And people don't get Ill or die from not having any water for an hour or 2. If they are that Ill then they wouldn't be on a train in the first place.

Sorry to disappoint but no ones life was put in danger here. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Be realistic for a bit and try to understand that we (as in staff) arnt being argumentative but are explaining the reasoning behind how these things work. We do actually know what we are talking about and have been in similar situations first hand.



Well you'd be pretty unlucky to be stranded on a train for 5 hours. How many trains ran yesterday and didn't get stuck for 6 hours? And 1 did, now look at the day before, I fact take the last year and see how many trains got stuck for 6 hours and how many ran without any such incident. That should put your mind at rest.

And if you are mega unlucky, don't open the door. It's stupid and dangerous and could get you into a lot of trouble.

Something else should have been done though. Even the FGW spokesman has said so himself.

 

[455driver]

Thank you a-driver.
I would never open them but just knowing that I could helps me alot.

Can they be opened manually if the worse came to the worse?

Or does the driver have to open them automatically?

Thanks so much

They can be opened manually but you will be fined for improper use of them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Think that I might take up poking my eyes out with a pointed stick

Thats a blinding joke!

 

[87015]

And if you are mega unlucky, don't open the door. It's stupid and dangerous and could get you into a lot of trouble.

Can't recall anyone dying or even raising eyebrows when I took this phot whilst the train awaited a pilot loco through engineering work....How did anyone survive?

http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/category/euro-nedding/czech-republic/#jp-carousel-509

 

[455driver]

find me a train driver who has never had a wee out the cab door, in the cess, against a signal post or up against the side of their train.

I have never done any of those things!*








* This post might not be entirely true!

 

[richw]

Urinating in a public space is a criminal offence. I'd say a field is a public space. I understand that this us just an accusation though.

Probably privately owned by a farmer. Would require the land owner to lodge a complaint for it to be any kind of offence

 

[A-driver]

Can't recall anyone dying or even raising eyebrows when I took this phot whilst the train awaited a pilot loco through engineering work....How did anyone survive?

http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/category/euro-nedding/czech-republic/#jp-carousel-509

What has that got to do with anything? So you think it ok to just open the doors by the emergency handle when ever you feel like it? I bow to your apparently superior knowledge as I was thinking that, if nothing else, it may put the train out of gauge causing a danger for passing trains. Plus all the other common sense reasons that leaf to doors staying closed.

And I can't get that link to open.

 

[1e10]

Answer these please, you seem to have missed them-

And another one-
Were all toilets on the train out of action?

I await your (ill informed, made up) reply with baited breath!

Supplies did run out. Even if we don't know the exact minute as to when they did run out, it could have been an hour into it or 5 hours into the incident. I've never claimed that supplies were out for hours so stop trying to imply that I have made some sort of drastic statement.

Passangers said toilets were out of use, i.e. they were unable to use the toilet. I you're able to present me with a quote from the article which suggests that passangers were implying some toilets were out of use with others in use then feel free.

 

[dogs1234]

Thanks 455 driver!

So worse case scenario passengers can open manually and doesnt have to be done by driver?

 

[richw]

Thanks 455 driver!

So worse case scenario passengers can open manually and doesnt have to be done by driver?

but you will be fined if you do it in anytime except a genuine emergency

 

[Mitch in Notts]

That means that the train would be about 1¾ miles or so (roughly) from Pewsey and a quick look at Google Earth suggests several roads nearby, some with access available for track maintenance and perhaps rescue if need be.

I really struggle however to think of this location as 'remote' as has been mentioned in a few posts on this thread. Hardly looks like the middle of nowhere.

20 minute walk then for most able bodied people. Taxis for the stretcher cases. Better than waiting for six hours surely!

 

[A-driver]

Supplies did run out. Even if we don't know the exact minute as to when they did run out, it could have been an hour into it or 5 hours into the incident. I've never claimed that supplies were out for hours so stop trying to imply that I have made some sort of drastic statement.

Passangers said toilets were out of use, i.e. they were unable to use the toilet. I you're able to present me with a quote from the article which suggests that passangers were implying some toilets were out of use with others in use then feel free.

As I say, even if the toilets stopped working (filled up or wouldn't flush) then there are still sinks and in a real emergency you could go out the door. The staff arnt holding people hostage at gunpoint, if someone is that desperate they will find a solution.

As for water etc, even going without water for 6 hours won't kill you, even on a hot day. It's not ideal but not life threatening. And as I keep saying and you keep ignoring, if anyone did become ill / severely dehydrated then an ambiance would be called to assist.

 

[455driver]

Thanks 455 driver!

So worse case scenario passengers can open manually and doesnt have to be done by driver?

Yes but you would do much better to contact a member of staff if you think there is likely to be an issue.

"I felt claustophobic" is not a valid reason to use the emergency door release.

The chances of the train getting stuck are miniscule in the grand scheme hence threads like this one going into overdrive when it does happen.

 

[island]

find me a train driver who has never had a wee out the cab door, in the cess, against a signal post or up against the side of their train

I thought you guys normally booked on with two water bottles, one full and one empty...

Probably privately owned by a farmer. Would require the land owner to lodge a complaint for it to be any kind of offence

Nope. Public urination can constitute disorderly behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm, or distress, an offence under s5 Public Order Act 1986, or can be classified as outraging public decency, an offence under common law. Neither requires the landowner to complain.

 

[dogs1234]

Yes I know that richw. just knowing that they can be opened comforts me enough. I dont feel trapped if I know I can escape if a fire or something breaks out.

 

[455driver]

Asif anyone did become ill / severely dehydrated then an ambiance would be called to assist.

Would that be soft lighting, candles and gentle music?

Cant see how that would help!

 

[A-driver]

20 minute walk then for most able bodied people. Taxis for the stretcher cases. Better than waiting for six hours surely!

20 mins walk for an able bodies person on concrete. Double that for ballast as its takes far longer to walk on ballast. Add even more time for carrying your luggage, children, wearing high heels, assisting those not so able bodied.

Then factor in the heat - if it was that hot and uncomfortable on board then it would be a nightmare to walk in with all your luggage (you can't wheel a suitcase in ballast so would need to carry it).

So not really a 20 min walk is it?!

What are the stretcher cases? No one was injured or taken ill as far as I am aware?

 

[A-driver]

Would that be soft lighting, candles and gentle music?

Cant see how that would help!

That's quite a good autocorrect!

 

[455driver]

That's quite a good autocorrect!

I thought so too.

 

[dogs1234]

Do underground have emergency door release too?

 

[A-driver]

I'm off to bed as I'm up stupidly early in the morning for work, ill look forward to reading how silly this has got in the morning!

Or perhaps people will realise that we do
Know what we are on about on here and arnt just being negative for the sake of it!

Well I can dream anyway!

 

[ushawk]

20 mins walk for an able bodies person on concrete. Double that for ballast as its takes far longer to walk on ballast. Add even more time for carrying your luggage, children, wearing high heels, assisting those not so able bodied.

Then factor in the heat - if it was that hot and uncomfortable on board then it would be a nightmare to walk in with all your luggage (you can't wheel a suitcase in ballast so would need to carry it).

So not really a 20 min walk is it?!

What are the stretcher cases? No one was injured or taken ill as far as I am aware?

Not forgetting the amount of staff your going to need to supervise that walk and the time it would take to get there. Id have thought these staff members would have to be track safety trained too and on a Sunday evening these could be in short supply.

What do you do with people in wheelchairs or elderly people who cant walk long distances, also young children. You cant have these walking along the line unless its badly the last resort. Walking along ballast isnt easy if your wearing normal footwear too.

 

[Kristofferson]

Do underground have emergency door release too?

Not passenger operated IIRC.

 

[1e10]

I thought you guys normally booked on with two water bottles, one full and one empty...

Nope. Public urination can constitute disorderly behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm, or distress, an offence under s5 Public Order Act 1986, or can be classified as outraging public decency, an offence under common law. Neither requires the landowner to complain.

Had a strong feeling I was correct.

20 mins walk for an able bodies person on concrete. Double that for ballast as its takes far longer to walk on ballast. Add even more time for carrying your luggage, children, wearing high heels, assisting those not so able bodied.

Then factor in the heat - if it was that hot and uncomfortable on board then it would be a nightmare to walk in with all your luggage (you can't wheel a suitcase in ballast so would need to carry it).

So not really a 20 min walk is it?!

What are the stretcher cases? No one was injured or taken ill as far as I am aware?

I think Mitch in Notts was suggesting that it would have been quicker to walk to the next station than wait 6 hours. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

I know that at the time the staff managing the incident wouldn't have been able to accurately estimated the amount of time it was going to take before things we moving again. There should have been a point at which staff atleast started to get other provision inplace.

 

[Mojo]

Do underground have emergency door release too?

I answered this in my post above

... London Underground where the door release inside the car can only be released with a key (the only emergency exits "advertised" (for want of a better word) on LU stock is through the cabs).