Caledonian Sleeper bidders named

[Eagle]

Or Euston-EW Rail-Bedford-Sheffield-Leeds/Doncaster-York-Newcastle-Edinburgh-Glasgow.

Steady on, Sheffield to Leeds and Doncaster hasn't been announced yet! If Derby to Sheffield won't be done by 2022 according to NR, north of Sheffield will have to wait even longer than that... :P

 

[YorkshireBear]

Steady on, Sheffield to Leeds and Doncaster hasn't been announced yet! If Derby to Sheffield won't be done by 2022 according to NR, north of Sheffield will have to wait even longer than that... :P

It will be done straight after MML its obvious and Network Rail know its going to happen. I didn't realise the date had slipped that far.

 

[jcevans]

How exciting! Surprised Virgin is putting in a bid! Could any bids include a service between Reading/SW and Scotland?

http://m.scotsman.com/scotland-on-s...er-train-will-be-scotland-on-wheels-1-2747896

The Caledoinan Sleeper service bidders told to impress with revamp
10 comments
By ALASTAIR DALTON
THE Caledonian Sleeper is to be radically overhauled to create a luxury train service that is “emblematic of Scotland”.


Bidders for a new 15-year franchise to run the overnight Scotland-London link have been told that government ministers are insisting that the trains must “send a strong message about Scotland” and “reflect” what visitors can expect when they arrive in the country.

The new service – to be boosted by £100 million of investment pledged by the Scottish and UK governments – could also include luxury-class cabins to attract well-heeled tourists heading on sporting holidays. Other new features likely to be considered by potential operators include showers, TVs, gourmet dining and wifi access.

Overnight sleeper services have operated between Edinburgh, Glasgow and London for 140 years, with a separate train now operating to and from Aberdeen, Fort William and Inverness, which divides at Edinburgh. Until now it has largely hosted business travellers and politicians attracted by the early-morning arrival at London Euston, and carries 270,000 passengers a year.

But the Caledonian Sleeper – currently operated by ScotRail – uses coaches which are up to 40 years old with cramped, shared accommodation and spartan facilities. The service also costs £25m a year to run, with annual losses of more than £5m.

Bidders for the service from 2015, which would be run separately from ScotRail, have been told to make sleeper journeys such a compelling experience that passengers will want to revisit Scotland.

The Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency, which is in charge of the franchise, said it effectively aimed to make the sleeper like “Scotland on wheels”.

A spokeswoman said: “The Caledonian Sleeper stands as a unique and cherished service for rail users to and from Scotland. It is more than just a train service, it is part of a holiday, a business office and a hotel which is close to the hearts of passengers.

“We will let a separate 15-year franchise and this, coupled with over £100m of investment, is intended to give this historic service the 21st-century future it deserves.”

Transport Scotland said the Caledonian Sleeper was an “immediately identifiable brand” and it had asked bidders to propose an approach, including livery, which will be emblematically Scottish.

“This is an opportunity to showcase the best of Scotland in terms of hospitality, service and quality. The new service should be a source of pride,” the spokeswoman said.

“The sleeper serves a number of Scotland’s iconic tourist and sporting destinations so we have asked bidders to consider the possibilities around adding a luxury travel option.

“The Caledonian Sleeper will be an important factor in Scotland’s visibility in London – as a destination for leisure and business. It will not just be a means to an end, but a destination in itself.”

Potential bidders, who will be asked to lodge their interest in April, include Dutch railways offshoot Abellio, Sir *Richard Branson’s Virgin and Serco, which runs rail franchises such as the Docklands Light Railway. Abellio runs daytime services in England, and Virgin runs the main west coast line service between Glasgow and London.

Regular passengers said that, despite its charms, the sleeper desperately needed updating.

Jane Lindsey, who uses the service to travel on business for her Snapdragon gifts business near Drymen, said: “It’s a 1970s experience: all a bit tired and cramped, but really clean, and the service by the staff is absolutely brilliant.

“But there are no power sockets for laptops and it is difficult to wheel even airline cabin-size baggage along the corridors.”

Jill McNicol, development manager with Moray Tourism, who also runs holiday accommodation near Inverness, said: “It’s a really disappointing service.

“If it was up to scratch it would be fantastic, such as with showers and only single cabins so you did not have to share with someone you had never met before. It does not put Scotland in the best light, although the staff are great.”

Professor Jim Gallacher, a former board member of watchdog body Passenger *Focus, said the sleeper should be as good as the best European overnight trains, such as the “hotel on wheels” that runs between Paris and Madrid.

He said: “It is a very high-quality experience, with en suite facilities and a very good dining car.

“I would be worried about waving the tartan too much, but you could provide good-quality Scottish food, which is very patchy at the moment.”

Professor Iain Docherty, a rail expert at Glasgow University and former Transport Scotland board member, said: “Flight disruption caused by the Icelandic volcano eruption proved the value of the sleeper, while new high-quality services have opened across Europe.”

ScotRail, currently run by Aberdeen-based FirstGroup, said it had invested £1m in sleeper refurbishments, *including toilets and cabin wash basins.

A spokesman said: “We have a programme of continuous improvements to the product, including enhancements to the catering and the introduction of duvets in cabins.”

An Abellio spokesman said: “Transport Scotland has outlined an exciting vision for the next sleeper franchise.

“We are following developments closely and look forward to the next stages of this important opportunity.”

Twitter: @AlastairDalton

 

[Manchester77]

'Sir Richard Bransons Virgin? What happened to Stagecoach?!

And turning it into a luxury service won't that result in stupidly high prices what you get now ok it's not luxury or anything but its nice do prefer Night Riviera though

 

[gordonthemoron]

will the menu now include deep fried mars bars?

 

[sprinterguy]

That's a bit of an old article (From January). I thought that the shortlisted bidders had already been announced as being First Group, DB-Arriva and Serco/Abellio. No signs of Virgin involvement.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That's a bit of an old article (From January). I thought that the shortlisted bidders had already been announced as being First Group, DB-Arriva and Serco/Abellio. No signs of Virgin involvement.

I thought that too... :/

I remember discussing it with regards to First's experience with two sleeper operations under its belt.

 

[CallySleeper]

'Sir Richard Bransons Virgin? What happened to Stagecoach?!

Virgin Group of which Branson is founder and chair. If you're thinking of Virgin trains Stagecoach only have a 49% share in the company.

 

[jon0844]

Virgin better win or we'll probably see another 'toys out of the pram' scenario like the WCML!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Think the sinario you describe is nearer to what will happen should First fail to win it - Hate them as I do the service has come to no harm in there hands and would be good for them to retain it as they do seam to have plenty of ideas for improving it!

 

[route:oxford]

'Sir Richard Bransons Virgin? What happened to Stagecoach?!

And turning it into a luxury service won't that result in stupidly high prices what you get now ok it's not luxury or anything but its nice do prefer Night Riviera though

Virgin through ticketing from Inverness to New York. Nice idea.

Their rail partners, Stagecoach, have experience in operating rail sleeper services from Scotland to London.

 

[Eagle]

Their rail partners, Stagecoach, have experience in operating rail sleeper services from Scotland to London.

Do they? The Caley Sleeper has been operated by First since 2004, and by NX from 1997 to 2004.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Virgin better win or we'll probably see another 'toys out of the pram' scenario like the WCML!

It's kind of hard for them to win a franchise they're not shortlisted for. Not to say they won't complain anyway

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do they? The Caley Sleeper has been operated by First since 2004, and by NX from 1997 to 2004.

Don't you remember how it all started?
In late BR days Stagecoach hired two seating coaches of the Aberdeen sleeper and sold tickets themselves. BR remained the train operator, of course.
It didn't last long.
But they can lay claim to be the first private operator of the Caley sleepers - the very ones still running today.

 

[87015]

Don't you remember how it all started?
In late BR days Stagecoach hired two seating coaches of the Aberdeen sleeper and sold tickets themselves. BR remained the train operator, of course.
It didn't last long.
But they can lay claim to be the first private operator of the Caley sleepers - the very ones still running today.

Whats "sleeper" about a couple of Mk2d though? Seems to be a rather grand upscaling of what they actually did to me...

 

[Hellfire]

Call me old fashioned but I think a sleeper from London to the Scottish Highlands should be a special experience. The current offering is not particularly special. Old stock, few modern facilities such as WiFi and plugs for laptops and a pretty down market catering experience.

There is no way the sleeper can compete with air on either price or convenience. I've just done a comparison for a random date in October. Easyjet fly from Luton to Inverness direct in 1hr 25 min at a single fare of £31. Even allowing for getting to Luton and check in etc that's still no more than 4 hours.

The sleeper, shared occupancy from Euston to Inverness on the same date is just short of £200 and takes 12 hours.Even sitting in a seat for the whole journey would cost you in excess of £140

The only way the sleeper is going to compete imho is a either by a serious refurb of existing stock, which is pretty old, or major investment in new stock and a real upgrade in the standard of accommodation and catering.

It can't compete with air on price or convenience so it may as well go for a more upmarket clientele.

 

[Norther Monkey]

The competition with air is a reasonable argument - however the sleeper is still the only way to leave London early evening and arrive in Inverness before 0900 the next day. All flights leave somewhat earlier.

Where the sleeper comes into its own is connecting the midlands and northern England with the north of Scotland. I commute between the East Midlands and Inverness and the sleeper gives me an extra full day at home by doing the journey in what would otherwise be 'dead' time. It allows me to do a full day's work and be home the next morning. There are no flights that can do this.

Currently by using an inter available ticket it costs me little more (due routing) than using day time trains to use a seat (and flexibility of return journeys), or if I'm feeling flush that week I can get a bed for another £40-60.

Making the service upmarket, and therefore possibly significantly more expensive, could make the sleeper unviable for me. Any change to the validity of inter available tickets would also have a significant impact.

Whilst I am all for attracting new passengers current users should not be forgotten.

 

[anme]

I had my first sleeper experience recently and was very impressed. It was comfortable and I slept pretty well. The point about journey time is irrelevant - sleeping while travelling is actually an efficient use of time. I arrived feeling much fresher than after getting up at an obscene hour of the morning and dashing to an airport. For business travellers the price is not so critical if other factors are favourable.

If it's done right, I could see a revamped Caledonian sleeper being popular and successful. I wish it good luck!

 

[cjp]

I would agree! As for Serco, they will probs do what they have done with the northern isles Orkney and Shetland ferries - strip away all the good bits of the service, ailionate the staff, infuriate the unions and wack up the prices!

Serco will be good - they also do transportation of prisoners in those little white vans.

Clearly they have the required experience of transportation

Imagine the jolly guard with his clanking bunch of keys and breakfast being pushed though a slot in door.

 

[jon0844]

Serco is one of those firms that can do anything. They can bid for anything and then outsource or 'buy in' the labour. A real Jack of all trades firm, like Veolia and the rest.

It's hard to determine how good they'd be at anything based on what else they do, but I doubt you'd be sharing your sleeper cabin with a prisoner - although that might make your trip more memorable. Maybe fares could be based on the severity of their crime?

Serco also operate traffic lights, the DLR, as well as pick up the rubbish from my house. I bet the company also has its fingers in loads of other pies.

 

[cjp]

. The point about journey time is irrelevant - sleeping while travelling is actually an efficient use of time. I arrived feeling much fresher than after getting up at an obscene hour of the morning and dashing to an airport. For business travellers the price is not so critical if other factors are favourable.

If it's done right, I could see a revamped Caledonian sleeper being popular and successful. I wish it good luck!

Hear. Hear.

But for leisure travellers the price, even with saving on a night's accomodation, is not that attractive
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Serco is one of those firms that can do anything. They can bid for anything and then outsource or 'buy in' the labour. A real Jack of all trades firm, like Veolia and the rest.

It's hard to determine how good they'd be at anything based on what else they do, but I doubt you'd be sharing your sleeper cabin with a prisoner - although that might make your trip more memorable. Maybe fares could be based on the severity of their crime?

Serco also operate traffic lights, the DLR, as well as pick up the rubbish from my house. I bet the company also has its fingers in loads of other pies.

As I recall the full quote is "Jack of all trades, master of none"

 

[CallySleeper]

Usually, yes I all for new trains as opposed to old ones (With exception of HST vs 22x.) But for me, the age of the sleeper train actually adds more to the experience. I understand what people say though about newer trains being better etc. and as I say in the main I agree with this. But who's with me?!

 

[jcevans]

Could they not be buying old carriages from SNCF/RENFE upgrades from the past 6 years?

On that point, is there any option for the owners of Trenhotel to come in? Is the Madrid=Paris sleeper a commercial success (if it was sold commercially)

 

[nathanclass323]

Serco also operate traffic lights, the DLR, as well as pick up the rubbish from my house. I bet the company also has its fingers in loads of other pies.

They operate some hospitals in the UK I believe! Though I think my mother (who is an ex BREL worker/current NHS Manager) said that they're often the worst ones in the UK! I'd much rather Arriva or First got the franchise due to the fact I've never had a good experience with Serco apart from Merseyrail.

 

[Manchester77]

^^

Serco is committed to enabling our chosen partners in the Healthcare arena to achieve their clinical goals through transformational development and integration of non clinical support services, through Hospitals Integrated Facilities Management services.

Serco is engaged with healthcare clients throughout the UK, supporting them in their clinical aspirations.

Serco currently provide Hospital Facilities Management services at the following hospitals:

Forth Valley Royal Hospital, Larbert, Stirlingshire
Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital, Norwich
Derriford Hospital, Plymouth
Wishaw General Hospital, North Lanarkshire

http://www.serco.com/markets/health/hospitals/

Most of the bus style ambulances (idk what they're called!) are Arriva near us

 

[nathanclass323]

Manchester77 I've never seen Arriva ones in Derby (they don't appear to have any company's logo on them) but I've certainly seen them in Nottingham.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I do wish people would stop suggesting using Luton Airport, it is quite possibly the worst I've used in the UK, especially the queues at security/immigration. Unfortunatley it's my local one

 

[nathanclass323]

I do wish people would stop suggesting using Luton Airport, it is quite possibly the worst I've used in the UK, especially the queues at security/immigration. Unfortunatley it's my local one

I recently travelled from Luton to Barcelona in July and I found it to be so much more efficient than East Midlands which is my local one!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've never had a problem with EMA, Leeds/Bradford, Manchester, Birmingham or even Stansted recently. Flying from Luton tomorrow to the equally rubbish Berlin Schonefeld

 

[nathanclass323]

I've never had a problem with EMA - it's just not as efficient as Luton.

 

[Hellfire]

I do wish people would stop suggesting using Luton Airport, it is quite possibly the worst I've used in the UK, especially the queues at security/immigration. Unfortunatley it's my local one

Not sure they'd make you do immigration for a flight from Inverness....at least, until Salmond wins the independence referendum