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Railway worker suspended after rescuing disabled woman

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Rules are there for protection of staff and others.

However, if someone has chosen to put himself at risk and disregard those rules, in the unusual circumstance where another person is in imminent and obvious danger, that should be his/her choice and a sensible employer should back the decision, albeit guardedly.

In this case, in my opinion C2C made a decision which they should have known would cause controversy and suspending the employee was premature.
 

Prairie_5542

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Rules are there for protection of staff and others.

However, if someone has chosen to put himself at risk and disregard those rules, in the unusual circumstance where another person is in imminent and obvious danger, that should be his/her choice and a sensible employer should back the decision, albeit guardedly.

In this case, in my opinion C2C made a decision which they should have known would cause controversy and suspending the employee was premature.

A catch 22 situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 

talltim

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Isn't this guy a 'security guard' for the railway and not actually railway staff?
I got that impression, but then he is an employee of C2C and member of the RMT, which casts doubt in my mind whether that is the case
 

Fred26

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Do we know he didn't do that? I've not seen any report on the matter either way. Although I think I saw somewhere that "the train pulled in shortly afterwards", which would suggest that it wasn't stopped...

I was talking generally.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yeah and that would have been the same up until Major got hold of the railways as everyone would have had the same basic railway training. Some platform staff were even trained in point winding, handsignalling, bridge bash examination etc so, when something went wrong staff were on hand locally

However that was then, this is now, these days, with operators looking to save where they can and the increased use of agency staff, people only get trained for absolutely the minimum of what they need. That's today's railway for you


The point I was making was that in those days management didn't care about staff safety or health and well-being. Today they're forced to care.
 

Antman

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What's amusing to me is that these rules are there to protect the staff. I won't go anywhere near the track without the signalman confirming that the lines are blocked. Trains are quick and I don't want to be hit by one. I'm sure 100 years ago management would positively encouraged jumping straight down onto the track. Good job we learn from our mistakes!


Thats's up to you, if I'd been there and I could see that no trains were approaching, and there is a clear view at Southend Vic, I'd have done exactly what these blokes did and asked questions later. If you'd rather just stand and watch on your head be it.

There are occasions when the rule book goes out of the window and common sense takes over, I would suggest that this is one such occasion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Management following the correct procedure to ascertain what happened. Yeah, that's absolutely crap.



He potentially got himself killed, but hey, that's his choice.


Just like those that helped after the pile up on Sheppey Bridge yesterday may have got themselves killed, but hey they didn't
 
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KA4C

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Thats's up to you, if I'd been there and I could see that no trains were approaching, and there is a clear view at Southend Vic, I'd have done exactly what these blokes did and asked questions later. If you'd rather just stand and watch on your head be it.

In which case you'd have time to ring signaller and get a stop sent to all trains?
I'd have rung signaller first before acting, comes as an automatic action and something I've always done
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just like those that helped after the pile up on Sheppey Bridge yesterday may have got themselves killed, but hey they didn't

Not the same is it? Railwaymen have procedures to follow that are there for a reason, if you don't follow them, you are likely to get suspended whilst the matter is investigated, this seems to be what has happened
 

Antman

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In which case you'd have time to ring signaller and get a stop sent to all trains?
I'd have rung signaller first before acting, comes as an automatic action and something I've always done
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not the same is it? Railwaymen have procedures to follow that are there for a reason, if you don't follow them, you are likely to get suspended whilst the matter is investigated, this seems to be what has happened



Silly me, I don't have the signallers number stored on my mobile. As others have asked, what if this happened at an unstaffed station? What does Joe Public do then?
 

KA4C

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Silly me, I don't have the signallers number stored on my mobile. As others have asked, what if this happened at an unstaffed station? What does Joe Public do then?

Phone on the station for staff? Joe Public are not the same as trained railway staff. The point is that the guy on on investigatory suspension (according to C2C in the article), nothing unusual about that and that doesn't infer guilt. at the moment it is a lot of fuss over nothing to be honest
 

Fred26

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Thats's up to you, if I'd been there and I could see that no trains were approaching, and there is a clear view at Southend Vic, I'd have done exactly what these blokes did and asked questions later. If you'd rather just stand and watch on your head be it.

There are occasions when the rule book goes out of the window and common sense takes over, I would suggest that this is one such occasion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Just like those that helped after the pile up on Sheppey Bridge yesterday may have got themselves killed, but hey they didn't

It was Southend Central, not Victoria.

 

Tomnick

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In which case you'd have time to ring signaller and get a stop sent to all trains?
I'd have rung signaller first before acting, comes as an automatic action and something I've always done
I'd like to think any sensible railwayman would have done the same, even if they then went onto the line without waiting for it to be blocked. I wonder how many of those, here and elsewhere, suggesting that it's right to stick two fingers up at the rules will one day find themselves being asked, in an interview, to describe a time that they dealt with an emergency? Saying that you jumped straight in with no regard for your own safety or that of others, and ignoring the established procedures to make the situation as safe as possible...probably not the best answer!!

I still maintain that jumping straight in, with no attempt to first stop trains, would actually put the wheelchair user in more danger. If the would-be rescuer finds that they're then unable to get them out - not unlikely, given the height of platforms, any approaching train will by then be much closer and too late to stop. If you've got time to attempt a rescue...you've probably got time to get trains stopped.
 

Antman

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Phone on the station for staff? Joe Public are not the same as trained railway staff. The point is that the guy on on investigatory suspension (according to C2C in the article), nothing unusual about that and that doesn't infer guilt. at the moment it is a lot of fuss over nothing to be honest


Well let's cut to the chase here, in most circumstances going onto a railway line is no more dangerous than going onto a road where traffic may be travelling at high speed, obviously if there is a live third rail it's slightly different and there is loose ballast but even then use a bit of common sense and you should be ok. My point is that training doesn't really come into it in a situation like this, most bystanders (staff or general public) would quickly survey the situation and do what they thought best, as indeed those at Southend appear to have done.

And as I mentioned if this was an unstaffed station then passengers would have to think for themselves, there is no time to be making phone calls before deciding what to do.

I know being suspended doesn't infer guilt but some people may see it that way, if this incident happened as has been reported then quite honestly it's another 'own goal' for the rail industry.
 
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Mintona

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in most circumstances going onto a railway line is no more dangerous than going onto a road where traffic may be travelling at high speed

Not_sure_if_serious.jpg
 

A-driver

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Well in normal circumstances I wouldn't walk onto a railway line, I wouldn't walk onto a motorway either..............in an emergency it's rather different though

Except of course that cars doing 70 can stop pretty quickly compared to a train doing the same speed. Plus a car can always steer around you where possible. A train obviously can't. And a motorway has places you could run to get out the way like the central reservation and hard shoulder. If trapped between platforms (which are fairly high) and trains approach simultaneously on both lines you have nowhere to go.

But I'm sure your comments come from all the experience you have walking on railways and motorways and not just guesswork...
 

Antman

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Except of course that cars doing 70 can stop pretty quickly compared to a train doing the same speed. Plus a car can always steer around you where possible. A train obviously can't. And a motorway has places you could run to get out the way like the central reservation and hard shoulder. If trapped between platforms (which are fairly high) and trains approach simultaneously on both lines you have nowhere to go.

But I'm sure your comments come from all the experience you have walking on railways and motorways and not just guesswork...

I can't argue with that but it goes without saying that if I did need to go onto a railway track in an emergency I would look first, just as I would if I was crossing a railway line by a foot crossing.
 

A-driver

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I can't argue with that but it goes without saying that if I did need to go onto a railway track in an emergency I would look first, just as I would if I was crossing a railway line by a foot crossing.

I'm sure you would but the problem on the railways vs roads is that there are numerous rail lines with blind corners. A car driver should slow down around these corners as they won't be able to see what is round the bend. A train driver won't as a proceed signal tells you the line ahead is clear. You don't drive a train by slowing down for bends incase there is someone/something on the line ahead which you can't see.

I'm not commenting on this incident as no facts are yet known really and we don't know exactly what the rail employee actually knew about the situation etc but I would certainly argue that a railway is a more dangerous environment to walk around than a motorway or other road which is built for line of sight driving-a railway isn't.
 

ushawk

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I can't argue with that but it goes without saying that if I did need to go onto a railway track in an emergency I would look first, just as I would if I was crossing a railway line by a foot crossing.

And if the station was on a bend, then what ? You wouldnt be able to see what is coming and by the time you hear it, its probably too late.
 

Tomnick

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I can't argue with that but it goes without saying that if I did need to go onto a railway track in an emergency I would look first, just as I would if I was crossing a railway line by a foot crossing.
How would you know that you'd have sufficient time to 'escape', after the time at which you first sighted an approaching train, bearing in mind that you'd probably not see the train for a few seconds after it comes within your sighting distance?
 

talltim

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Not knowing that is what makes someone a hero.
If the train was too close to stop and you did nothing then the lady would have been killed.
If the train was too close to stop and you tried to rescue and succeeded then she would be saved
If the train was too close to stop and you tried to rescue and failed you would both be killed.
 
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Tomnick

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If the train wasn't too close to stop, you tried to rescue and failed, and you didn't attempt to stop the job until it was too late...she would be killed when she could have been saved.
 

anthony263

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Isn't this guy a 'security guard' for the railway and not actually railway staff?

No it was a member of station staff I believe along with one of C2C's security gaurds who went down onto the track to assist wheelchair person along with members of the public.

That is what is being pointed out over on Wnxx.

This story is on the BBC news webpage and Mr Crow is really taking the opportunity to bash C2C. That said I do wonder what would the situation have been like if this lady was struck by a train because station staff wouldnt go onto the track to help. No doubt the media would have a field day.

We dont have the full facts of this case so there may have been another member of staff who did alert the signaller while this other staff member got onto the track.
 

EM2

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We dont have the full facts of this case so there may have been another member of staff who did alert the signaller while this other staff member got onto the track.
Even if that is the case, he should not have got onto the track until he has had confirmation that the block is in place and all trains are stopped.
 

Muzer

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Out of interest, what is the track layout like at this station? I think it makes a difference if there is a refuge you could stand away from any (frequently used) track - eg where previous track has been removed, like at Andover. I don't suppose this was the case here?
 

bnm

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It's now being reported that police are investigating whether the lady in the wheelchair was pushed onto the track:

From the BBC:

Southend station wheelchair fall: Was woman pushed on to track?

Transport police are investigating whether a woman in a wheelchair was pushed on to railway tracks.

The 71-year-old woman from Benfleet was at Southend Central station, Essex, with a friend on 28 August when her wheelchair rolled off the platform.

A railway worker who helped rescue her was suspended amid suggestions he may have breached safety regulations by going on to the track.

The woman suffered a fractured hip in the fall.

Det Con David Bishop of British Transport Police said the woman remained at Southend General Hospital.

He said police wanted to speak to anybody who may have seen the woman fall, or seen her in the moments leading up to the incident.

....continues
 
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