• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Refurbished Eurostar?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Squaddie

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2009
Messages
1,073
Location
London
It's definitely weird because the way the seat numbering works they are supposed to be consistent; if the train is the other way round they just reverse the carriage numbering on the software don't they?
I can only guess that some of the carriages on some sets have slightly different layouts, and they can't be sure in advance which set will operate the service.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
All the sets ( at the moment at least ) have identical interiors.

I can think of three possible reasons why the website could be suddenly showing this warning message, and I have asked about it - as soon as I hear back I'll say what it is.

That's if they're allowed to tell me in the first place!




Edited to add: Just heard back. It's a software systems thing; just book your seats normally as per the seating plan that you can print off from the website and you'll be OK for seating direction.
 
Last edited:

Julian W

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2012
Messages
42
Does your contact know an accurate date for the refurbished sets to start arriving? At the moment stepping into a Eurostar is about as depressing as a 142 with bench seating!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
I thought that when the 142s are finally scrapped, those seats are in fact going into the Eurostar trains. That's why the refurb keeps getting pushed back.

:)
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
Does your contact know an accurate date for the refurbished sets to start arriving? At the moment stepping into a Eurostar is about as depressing as a 142 with bench seating!

Sorry, no, they wouldn't be allowed to say if they did anyway.

Similarly, they won't tell me anything about the interior post-refurb, although if they're doing what SNCF did to their TGV interiors, I'd rather travel on the Eurostars in their present condition...

*nurses bumped head from TGV central reading light cluster*
 

reb0118

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
28 Jan 2010
Messages
3,194
Location
Bo'ness, West Lothian
You can still get the seats re-allocated after booking, though I think you have to do that in person at St Pancras.

Yes, I travelled on eurostar with my Mother last year. I booked her ticket a London Spezial via the DB website but could only get my ticket, a staff discounted one, direct from DB's UK office. We were reserved into different coaches. At St. Pancras we were advised to contact the train manager who very quickly reallocated us seats together. For our return trip we missed our connecting ICE from Köln but were put on the next Thalys which left us minutes to get our connecting eurostar at Brüssel. I therefore did not ask for a change of seats as we made check in by the skin of our teeth. However, the check in assistant noticed our reservations and stated "we can do better than that" and reallocated us to a couple of table seats just like that. Most impressive.
 

Bridge189

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2011
Messages
174
Hasn't this first to be refurbished set been out of service for the majority of its life? Maybe that's a factor adding to the delays.

I am looking forward to seeing the updated 373 and the Valero when it comes into service.
 

317666

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2009
Messages
1,771
Location
East Anglia
They're all in use aren't they between Eurostar and SNCF?

I'm fairly sure there's a set (or maybe just the one 373, half-set) sitting in Temple Mills with no doors and the doorways plated over? You can see it from Tottenham Hale - Stratford trains.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
The set in question is 3101/2, which has been out of traffic for about a decade. It's the one that derailed at high speed when a WW1 trench collapsed under the LGV.

This set is certainly the one being used to trial various aspects of the refurbishment, although I am given to understand that it is not necessarily going to be the first one back in traffic.
 

Techniquest

Veteran Member
Joined
19 Jun 2005
Messages
21,674
Location
Nowhere Heath
Ahhhh, that'll be why I've not ever seen those 373 sets. Can't wait to see what the refurbishment will be like, it has to be said that the poor things need tidying up and I like many of the ideas brought up in this thread.

Been far too long since my last Eurostar journey, I think I know exactly what I'm doing for my birthday bash now...
 

Bridge189

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2011
Messages
174
The set in question is 3101/2, which has been out of traffic for about a decade. It's the one that derailed at high speed when a WW1 trench collapsed under the LGV.

This set is certainly the one being used to trial various aspects of the refurbishment, although I am given to understand that it is not necessarily going to be the first one back in traffic.

Any ideas why this set was out of use for over a decade? By all accounts it was only damaged in a single part of the 18 coach train and in a fairly minor way?

I think the spare parts set at temple mills is a half set of the spare NOL, the other half is in France fulfilling the same purpose.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
I imagine that in addition to any mechanical damage there was probably also quite a bit of underside damage along the length of it considering it landed in the ballast at high speed...

Certainly it wasn't so badly damaged that it hasn't been able to be moved by rail since; it was probably a case of just not being able to justify the cost against the fleet utilisation at the time.
 

woolwinder

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2009
Messages
26
Location
stevenage
They're all in use aren't they between Eurostar and SNCF?

Some TMST sets had been provisionally withdraw from service. But I have heard that the continuing delays (nothing now scheduled in 2013) to Velaro deliveries and the 373 set being refurbed at Hellemmes have thrown a spanner into the works.

Last time I saw a NOL in service it was diagrammed as aTGV shuttle service between Paris and Lille Flandres station. But it was rumoured at one time to be moving all or some of the NOLs to another route further south in France.
 

Bridge189

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2011
Messages
174
Some TMST sets had been provisionally withdraw from service. But I have heard that the continuing delays (nothing now scheduled in 2013) to Velaro deliveries and the 373 set being refurbed at Hellemmes have thrown a spanner into the works.

Last time I saw a NOL in service it was diagrammed as aTGV shuttle service between Paris and Lille Flandres station. But it was rumoured at one time to be moving all or some of the NOLs to another route further south in France.

I presume you mean withdrawn from SNCF service? I can only see Eurostar being interested in SNCFs few full length sets if they needed a stop gap measure, the NOLs being shorter would be a headace. Although I think the full lengths are owned independently by SNCF and have had nothing to do with Eurostar for years, if ever.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,771
I reckon if Eurostar really wanted all the TMST, SNCF would come to an arrangement- getting additional TGV doesn't seem to be challenging for them... as for the NOLs, if it came to it it would hardly be impossible to create a smaller number of full length sets from that fleet, leaving power/end/catering/centre cars as spares. But there's simply not the pressure on the fleet to need that
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
When Eurostar was thinking about expansion expansion a couple of years ago they would no doubt have considered the option of using more of the 373s. The fact they went for new trains, despite them doubtless being more expensive in the short term at least, suggests that the other disadvantages of using more 373s made it less attractive.
 

VP185

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2010
Messages
344
I heard from a friend working for Eurostar that the refurbishment of the current Eurostar fleet has been heavily delayed to the amount of damage found when the first set was stripped down and inspected which they obviously weren't expecting. I distinctly remember her saying that the sets were found to be very heavily pitted underneath which they believe has been caused by debris inside the tunnel.
 

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,566
When Eurostar was thinking about expansion expansion a couple of years ago they would no doubt have considered the option of using more of the 373s. The fact they went for new trains, despite them doubtless being more expensive in the short term at least, suggests that the other disadvantages of using more 373s made it less attractive.

New trains were the most attractive option because for their planned expansion, they needed trains that can work in Germany and the Netherlands, which 373s can't and wouldn't be able to without significant work
 

Manchester77

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2012
Messages
2,628
Location
Manchester
Can I ask why the 373s are in such bad shape underneath when they were built in 1992? Were they based upon older designs or something because I wouldn't expect an intercity train to be in such bad shape bellow the body?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,543
Location
Redcar
After twenty years of wear and tear, day in day out, why wouldn't they need significant work? That's at least half their life gone it would be logical that they'd need a heavy refurbishment around this point surely? 91s underwent a massive amount of work when they were barely five years old!
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
I heard from a friend working for Eurostar that the refurbishment of the current Eurostar fleet has been heavily delayed to the amount of damage found when the first set was stripped down and inspected which they obviously weren't expecting. I distinctly remember her saying that the sets were found to be very heavily pitted underneath which they believe has been caused by debris inside the tunnel.

Wouldn't a more likely cause be loose ballast outside the tunnel? The tunnel has slab track and the trains do not exceed 100mph within the tunnel so unless a lot of stuff is falling off lorries ( don't laugh - I mean stuff like lumps of mud, not stolen goods! ) on the open lattice HGV shuttles the tunnel passage should be the least likely part of the journey to cause damage.
 

woolwinder

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2009
Messages
26
Location
stevenage
After twenty years of wear and tear, day in day out, why wouldn't they need significant work? That's at least half their life gone it would be logical that they'd need a heavy refurbishment around this point surely? 91s underwent a massive amount of work when they were barely five years old!

373's were designed for a working life of 30 years, and in common with SNCF TGV's of the same era a mid life rebuild at approximately 15 years.

If this scheme had been adhered to then the whole fleet would have been rebuilt during the period 2007 to 2009.

Ballast damaged at 186 mph can be quite severe and also melting lumps of ice do drop off once the 373's enter the relative warmth of the tunnel during the winter months.

So these fine old gals face their 19th plus winter in their current shabby condition.
 

Julian W

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2012
Messages
42
I still find it a bit of a joke that they can't go through the wash. Surely each set must visit a depot once a week?!
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,754
Location
Epsom
I note the article indicates that the refurbished 373 will have an interior pretty much matching that of the 374.

Cat's out of the bag now then isn't it?!
 

cle

Established Member
Joined
17 Nov 2010
Messages
4,008
Joe Public wouldn't notice much difference if service and decor were the same inside.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,624
Location
Another planet...
Joe Public wouldn't notice much difference if service and decor were the same inside.

Other than the fact that with even a limitless budget for the refurbishment, the 373s will always be smaller and more cramped inside than the 374s which are not constrained by the UK loading gauge.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top