Manchester Metrolink master thread

[Manchester77]

The way I see it based on the new information I've seen today is that the Exchange Square - Shaw service will become East Didsbury - Shaw service in 2016/7 when the full 2CC opens. I do agree with you but both lines really need a 6 minute service, perhaps with the remodelled Deansgate-Castlefield an SML - DGCF service could run that way providing a 6 minute service on the busy SML through Chorlton and Didsbury as well as a 6 minute service through Oldham.

However (I think) we could have the 6 minute service now if they cut the MediaCity services back. The maximum capacity of the city now is 25tph which is fully used, however if you take out the Medias you've got 5 spare paths which could be used to provide some much needed relief to SML-ORL services. I reckon you could do it too, the shortened Media service only needs 3/4 trams and currently operated with something like 6/7. You could also undouble the 3 doubles used on current SML-ORL services. Ah but I'm basing this all on one thing which I don't think is working - Shaw. I don't think it's working and would require to be clipped and scotched every time the bays used. Pity really, however not stopping a 6 minute SML-Cornbrook/DGCF service

Oops kind of gone on with myself there..!

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes they could, capacity has been pinched for the Mediacity-Cornbrook service extension (that was only supposed to be temporary originally while signalling for Cornbrook pocket siding was sorted out), its been running so long now (and these plans propose to continue it until at least 2019 using early delivery of trams ordered for the Trafford line) that it would probably be political suicide to remove it at this point, people have just got used to it. Theyve also recently considered a seperate order for extra rolling stock to strengthen services on existing lines but it didnt have a high enough BCR to beat out other local projects for funding prioritisation.

Yes originally 6 minute Oldham/Shaw frequency would have commenced in 2016. The current plan is to ramp it up gradually by having a 12 minute service and as trams are delivered and commisioned for service (a process delayed by signalling rollout delays) strengthening more and more services until eventually they are all double, then they would split it into a 6 minute frequency operated by single trams.

The 5 mph temporary speed restrictions are generally where cracked rails, misaligned overhead or misbehaving signalling/points have been identified so services can continue to operate safely until a Pway gang can rectify it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It does seem unfortunate that Cornbrook falls on the route of so many present and future services.

Incidentally, how important is having the MediaCity stop and services on the agenda of the television companies, the Lowry shopping mall, the Lowry Centre and the Imperial War Museum North ?

 

[Andrew Nelson]

On Sunday, I decided to try the charms of the new line to Ashton.
I'd travelled to the temporary terminus at Droylsden earlier in the year.
However, I was wondering how long the underpass / dive under between Etihad campus and the Velodrome had been in existence? By the look of it, many years. Was it used for something else before?

 

[radamfi]

It does seem unfortunate that Cornbrook falls on the route of so many present and future services.

Incidentally, how important is having the MediaCity stop and services on the agenda of the television companies, the Lowry shopping mall, the Lowry Centre and the Imperial War Museum North ?

Capacity at Cornbrook seems to be adequate for the foreseeable future. I would guess it is no worse than the tram stops outside many central stations in mainland Europe where you have trams running every few minutes.

I'm sure the businesses in and around the MediaCity area find the tram stop useful, however Harbour City stop is just around the corner, which has existed for well over a decade.

 

[edwin_m]

On Sunday, I decided to try the charms of the new line to Ashton.
I'd travelled to the temporary terminus at Droylsden earlier in the year.
However, I was wondering how long the underpass / dive under between Etihad campus and the Velodrome had been in existence? By the look of it, many years. Was it used for something else before?

It was certainly built well before the contract was signed for phase 3, probably at the time Alan Turing Way was built but I can't give you a date.

 

[pemma]

It does seem unfortunate that Cornbrook falls on the route of so many present and future services.

Infrastructure problems at Cornbrook again this afternoon - after the same thing happening yesterday!

 

[Greybeard33]

Infrastructure problems at Cornbrook again this afternoon - after the same thing happening yesterday!

Just the latest episode in the long-running fiasco of the Thales TMS signalling system. Reinventing the wheel comes to mind.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just the latest episode in the long-running fiasco of the Thales TMS signalling system. Reinventing the wheel comes to mind.

This is somewhat less amusing to those who rely on the Manchester Metrolink to travel to and from work.

 

[Nym]

This is somewhat less amusing to those who rely on the Manchester Metrolink to travel to and from work.

There's a reason why Thalys Thales is in Stockport, no need to rely on any of their own signalling equipment

 

[radamfi]

There's a reason why Thalys is in Stockport, no need to rely on any of their own signalling equipment

Just in case anyone isn't aware, Thalys is a high speed train similar to the TGV that runs between Amsterdam, Cologne, Brussels and Paris

 

[Greybeard33]

This is somewhat less amusing to those who rely on the Manchester Metrolink to travel to and from work.

I apologise if my previous post was construed as making light of the disruption to passengers' lives and the damage to Greater Manchester's economy and reputation. I think it is a tragedy not a comedy.

As well as the TMS contractor, I consider that those involved in the original specification of, and contract award for, this system cannot escape their share of responsibility for the delays and disruption over the last few years.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I apologise if my previous post was construed as making light of the disruption to passengers' lives and the damage to Greater Manchester's economy and reputation. I think it is a tragedy not a comedy.

As well as the TMS contractor, I consider that those involved in the original specification of, and contract award for, this system cannot escape their share of responsibility for the delays and disruption over the last few years.

No problem. Your posting above is well-phrased (as all your postings are) and reflects the current unreliability problem so very well.

I think the point that I was trying to get across was some of the postings made by the aficionados of the Manchester Metrolink system can seem to be strictly made with concern regarding the operation and future expansion of the system to an extent that the long-suffering users of the system in real life every day are seen just as a annoying adjunct to that.

I am sure that this is not the impression they wish to convey, but at times, it does appear to be the case.

 

[Polo Mint]

Is the MediaCity UK line not successful? I must admit it seemed an odd line to add, as the amount of housing is limited, so it may be difficult to attract commuter traffic.

How popular is the new East Manchester (Ashton) line? From what I have seen it looks well used. I imagine this has affected rail services. Its quite exciting as this one of the only lines that has been created from scratch and not converted from heavy rail and I hope Metrolink consider expanding up the Oxford Rd corridor or the Princess Rd corridor similar to the new East Manchester line. A pain for motorists mind you.

 

[familyguy99]

Tram testing have took place on Oldham Town Centre line today and here picture of 3067/3069 tram in Westwood area.


Tram on test at Westwood Business park


Double tram at Westwood business park


3067-3069 tram at Westwood Business park


3067-3069 tram crossing West Street (Westwood area)


3067-3069 tram in Westwood area


3067-3069 Metrolink tram in Westwood area


Double tram waiting at Westwood stop


Looking at double tram heading off to Oldham Town Centre

And double tram on Oldham/Rochdale line.


Double trams on Oldham-Rochdale Metrolink line

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Is the MediaCity UK line not successful? I must admit it seemed an odd line to add, as the amount of housing is limited, so it may be difficult to attract commuter traffic.

How popular is the new East Manchester (Ashton) line? From what I have seen it looks well used. I imagine this has affected rail services. Its quite exciting as this one of the only lines that has been created from scratch and not converted from heavy rail and I hope Metrolink consider expanding up the Oxford Rd corridor or the Princess Rd corridor similar to the new East Manchester line. A pain for motorists mind you.

1. Media City is for people GOING to work. Not many people will start the day there (Apart from night shift I presume)
2. East Manchester (Ashton) line is not the first to be "created from scratch" Salford Quays and Eccles wasn't "converted from heavy rail"
3. I doubt the Ashton line would have "affected rail services" much as it takes far longer from end to end than the Train does.

 

[Manchester77]

EML patronage will be very similar to the Eccles lines growth, slow but steady. People on SCC have said how it looks underused but how can you really tell when it's not even been open a month. We'll only know how busy the line is after a couple of years and probably more as initial patronage will be made up of people who will want to see what the trams like. It'll take a good few months to build up the commuters etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
+ technically the SML wasn't converted as the rail corridor had been disused for a good 40 odd years

 

[rebmcr]

+ technically the SML wasn't converted as the rail corridor had been disused for a good 40 odd years

Parts of it were still used for freight in the late nineties.

 

[Manchester77]

It still wasn't a direct conversion like the phase one lines or the ORL

 

[Polo Mint]

I knew that the Eccles line was converted, but forgot about the South Manchester Line. Isn't it being constructed on part of the former Fallowfield Loop?

I have never really thought of the point of converting the lines to Metrolink from existing heavy rail services, but the Metrolink seems to be more popular with passengers. Perhaps its the modern high frequency trams compared to 30 year old pacers.

It's a shame they didn't re-open the Eccles to Wigan line as a Metrolink service, as opposed to a posh bus lane.

 

[Rail Bus]

It still wasn't a direct conversion like the phase one lines or the ORL

The metrolink service its a complete farce, if its not signal failure its something else

I am a long standing Altrincham commuter

Can someone tell me why I had to just wait 10 minutes for a driver change at Old Trafford? The whole tram could hear the outgoing driver on to control repeatedly saying "but what about the customers"

When the incoming driver arrived the whole tram could hear the conversation between the two drivers and it wasn't very complementary about the way Metrolink is run "****ing shambles" I heard both drivers say

Time to get the focus back on passengers, for to long this service seems to have been ran as some kind of experiment of expansion without the required infrastructure

I can tell you the general feeling of passengers is that the service is being run without thought of the passenger, they are just an operational inconvenience!!!

And of course my tram got terminated at Timperley due to late running

Farce, it shouldnt take me 40 minutes to get from Manchester to Altrincham

 

[Andrew Nelson]

The metrolink service its a complete farce, if its not signal failure its something else

I am a long standing Altrincham commuter

Can someone tell me why I had to just wait 10 minutes for a driver change at Old Trafford? The whole tram could hear the outgoing driver on to control repeatedly saying "but what about the customers"

When the incoming driver arrived the whole tram could hear the conversation between the two drivers and it wasn't very complementary about the way Metrolink is run "****ing shambles" I heard both drivers say

Time to get the focus back on passengers, for to long this service seems to have been ran as some kind of experiment of expansion without the required infrastructure

I can tell you the general feeling of passengers is that the service is being run without thought of the passenger, they are just an operational inconvenience!!!

And of course my tram got terminated at Timperley

Farce, it shouldnt take me 40 minutes to get from Manchester to Altrincham

Try driving at rush hour, and see how long it takes.

 

[Manchester77]

I knew that the Eccles line was converted, but forgot about the South Manchester Line. Isn't it being constructed on part of the former Fallowfield Loop?

Eccles Line wasn't converted it was built 'from scratch' just as the EML was and the airport line is. The SML was constructed on a former Cheshire Committee Lines alignment which lead into Manchester Central. The route up to the modern day St Werburgh's Road was the former Fallowfield loop, the rest is now a cycle lane.

 

[radamfi]

Can someone tell me why I had to just wait 10 minutes for a driver change at Old Trafford?

I don't agree with driver changes en route on any form of transport, unless the timetable has been adapted to incorporate the driver change. On a route with heavy demand like Metrolink it is even more unacceptable. Driver changes should only happen at terminii. Of course, this costs money. Changing drivers en route is running a service on the cheap.

 

[Manchester77]

The metrolink service its a complete farce, if its not signal failure its something else
I am a long standing Altrincham commuter
Time to get the focus back on passengers, for to long this service seems to have been ran as some kind of experiment of expansion without the required infrastructure
I can tell you the general feeling of passengers is that the service is being run without thought of the passenger, they are just an operational inconvenience!
And of course my tram got terminated at Timperley due to late running
Farce, it shouldnt take me 40 minutes to get from Manchester to Altrincham

Firstly, complain to metrolink what do people expect a group of enthusiasts can do?!
I've never experienced such a long driver change but I do agree it's irritating standing there while the drivers have a conversation, again try reporting I to metrolink/TfGM.
I too am a long standing user of the altrincham line regularly using it to go to Piccadilly. If you're so dissatisfied with the service why not use other alternatives, there the bus, you could drive or cycle - no ones forcing you to use metrolink.

My own observations are that Metrolink has ups and downs, during the summer the system operated very well with the few delays caused by T68s dying in the heat. What do you mean by 'required infrastructure'? The system has greatly improved in the past few years and the introduction of TMS down the Altrincham line will bring many improvements just as it has done at Cornbrook but as with everything there are teething troubles however the benefits far outweigh the occasional failure (recent disruption has been down to an overriding safety system on the points.) TMS brings real time information, the ability for trams to share platforms and more trams through busy sections.

 

[radamfi]

I don't really agree with arguments saying that you don't have to use the tram. Don't forget, the taxpayer has paid quite a lot of money for the trams, and we are relying on the good reputation of the tram system to cut the amount of car travel, and few things are more important than cutting traffic levels.

 

[Manchester77]

I was just making the point that no one forces him to use metrolink.

 

[Polo Mint]

Never experienced a driver change over on the tram but it is very annoying on the bus when it is mid way through a route.

Eccles Line wasn't converted it was built 'from scratch' just as the EML was and the airport line is. The SML was constructed on a former Cheshire Committee Lines alignment which lead into Manchester Central. The route up to the modern day St Werburgh's Road was the former Fallowfield loop, the rest is now a cycle lane.

Sorry I meant to say that is was not converted. It would have been good to see the entire Fallowfield Loop turned into a tramline all the way to Gorton then onto Manchester.

 

[Greybeard33]

I was just making the point that no one forces him to use metrolink.

He could try the Northern Trains service - 28.5 minutes from Piccadilly to Altrincham via Stockport. Only 1tph, but dependable!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a shame they didn't re-open the Eccles to Wigan line as a Metrolink service, as opposed to a posh bus lane.

Being somewhat an amateur railway historian and the the one who set up the Closed Stations Journey quiz, I remember that the London and North Western Railway ran a service from Eccles to Wigan North Western which was part of a route taken from the Manchester area. The stations on that section were:-

Eccles
Monton Green
Worsley
Ellenbrook
Tyldesley
Howe Bridge
Hindley Green
Platt Bridge
Wigan North Western

I have a feeling that your posting makes reference to the Leigh Guided Busway project that has had recent works announcements made regarding the roads on the route. However, your posting makes reference to Wigan as being on this route, which is not the case as Leigh is the terminal point on that new system.

Still, the thought of the Manchester Metrolink system passing through the areas of Howe Bridge, Hindley Green, Platt Bridge and Wigan is something that will give the residents in those communities something to cheer about..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps those forum members who are also devotees of SSC would like to add that last-mentioned route as a contender on the SSC Manchester Metrolink "fantasy lines" thread...