C Stock

[Manchester77]

Has the reduction in side doors made any difference to dwell times, I seem to remember some questions were raised about the reduction from 3 doors to 2 on the S7s could cause increased dwell times?

 

[Nym]

Has the reduction in side doors made any difference to dwell times, I seem to remember some questions were raised about the reduction from 3 doors to 2 on the S7s could cause increased dwell times?

four double doors to three double doors.

The doors on S Stock are wider than on the C Stock, what's making it worse at the moment are the short patforms on the route that are cause passengers to have to walk through the train, and when the ATP comes online and dwell times drop down through the floor I can see more delays coming from pulling the big red handles.

 

[Dstock7080]

The doors on S Stock are wider than on the C Stock . . . .

Except the first double-door at each end, which are narrower than C Stock but just 73mm wider than D Stock.

and when the ATP comes online and dwell times drop down through the floor I can see more delays coming from pulling the big red handles.

S Stock have PEA push-buttons.

 

[Nym]

S Stock have PEA push-buttons.

OK then, "pulling the black cover away and pushing the not that big red button..."

Also, in the core 'circle' asside from Great Portland Street - Aldgate there are a fair few stations that have the front or rear door locked OOU by the SDO.

Still, when you want one 'standard' stock to cover so many different service patterns, there will be compromise, especially when they're trains built to a standard and a JTC formula that doesn't make door appature width that important.

 

[Mikey C]

There seemed to be a shortage of stock on the Circle and H&C today, was this due to problems with the C or S7 stock?

 

[simple simon]

Wonder if there will be a final tour - way back they used to work on the Met Main - reaching Amersham in service a few times ....

There ought to be - and for added interest it should be an 8 car set, since these trains were designed to operate as such - even thiough in the end it never happened (they always remained as 6 cars).

They were also designed to operate as 4 car sets, at quiet times, but the only time that ever seemed to have happened was the first C stock withdrawal at Northwood in 2012.

 

[joeykins82]

what's making it worse at the moment are the short patforms on the route that are cause passengers to have to walk through the train, and when the ATP comes online and dwell times drop down through the floor I can see more delays coming from pulling the big red handles.

I'm baffled as to why the big red "door out of service" light doesn't come on until after the train has stopped at the platform; if it was on sooner then passengers in the SDO zone would have time to move to a set of doors that were actually going to open.

 

[Dstock7080]

Until the train actually stops can the track mounted position detectors tell the train where it is and which doors to release.

 

[joeykins82]

The PIS knows what the next station is going to be, so surely it could be programmed to turn in the "door not in use" lights above the doors that aren't going to be in use at that next station in advance?

 

[Mojo]

There seemed to be a shortage of stock on the Circle and H&C today, was this due to problems with the C or S7 stock?

Non availability of serviceable C Stock.

 

[Nym]

The PIS knows what the next station is going to be, so surely it could be programmed to turn in the "door not in use" lights above the doors that aren't going to be in use at that next station in advance?

Hence why the PIS makes such an announcement when the train boards at the previous station and when pulling into the SDO station...

The door lights are not connected to the PIS and for damn good reason...

 

[WinterChief]

The CSDE antennas on the train can pick up the signal from the platform beacons from about 1 metre either side of the beacons.

It would have been good to do it via the CIS but different platforms require different door opening patterns, even if they are at the same station. So the CIS would have to know which specific platform the train would come into before hand. Its clever, but not that clever

 

[Mikey C]

Non availability of serviceable C Stock.

Thanks. There were plenty of C stock out today what what I saw...

 

[joeykins82]

Hence why the PIS makes such an announcement when the train boards at the previous station and when pulling into the SDO station...

The door lights are not connected to the PIS and for damn good reason...

Can you explain why please? I don't get it: the PIS knows what the next station will be and could presumably be programmed to turn on the door light in advance without compromising safety. People don't necessarily listen to announcements, either due to language barriers, earphones or general ignorance. A big red light above the door might help.

 

[Dstock7080]

Can you explain why please? I don't get it: the PIS knows what the next station will be and could presumably be programmed to turn on the door light in advance without compromising safety.

Yes, the CIS knows what the next station will be - but is doesn't know where exactly the driver will stop the train.
As i tried to say in my earlier response, the track-mounted position detectors instantly tell the train exactly where (to the millimetre) it has stopped - (by measuring exactly how far from the front and rear detector it is) only then will it allow the appropriate doors to open.

 

[Nym]

Because the doors, sdo, door lights and other associated equipment is an MVDC safety tested system and the DVA is not...!

 

[astock5000]

25/10/2013:
5506-6506 + 5504-6504 + 6711-5711 233
5525-6525 + 6522-5522 + 6601-5601 212
5534-6534 + 6586-5586 + 6550-5550 xxx - Circle or District line service
5541-6541 + 6537-5537 + 6710-5710 211
5553-6553 + 6524-5524 + 6712-5712 075
5568-6568 + 5517-6517 + 6707-5707 237 - Formation change
5598-6598 + 5709-6709 + 6728-5728 235
5600-6600 + 5543-6543 + 6723-5723 204
5602-6602 + 6533-5533 + 6717-5717 xxx - In service at Olympia this morning

5726-6726 + 6566-5566 + 6xxx-5xxx 231

 

[simple simon]

Thanks. There were plenty of C stock out today what what I saw...

Today (25th Oct 2013) I was at Embankment... waited ages for an S Stock, in the end gave up waiting.

I must have an S Stock at that station because I've filmed there before (when there were 1959 & 1972Mk 1 tube stock trains on the Northern Line). So, I just need an S stock and I'm ready...

btw, the 1972Mk1 train I filmed in 1990 has blue doors. I assume that its to do with the experimental liveries on the Underground.

Simon

 

[Dstock7080]

More C Stock going soon:
1/11
1x C6 Barking-Northwood
1x C6 Barking-Neasden
2/11
3x C6 Barking-Neasden
2x C6 Hammersmith-Neasden
4/11
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
7/11
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
12/11
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
14/11
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
18/11
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
22/11
1x C6 Acton Works-Northwood
25/11
1x C6 Acton Works-Northwood
28/11
1x C6 Acton Works-Northwood
5/12
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
7/12
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
8/12
1x C6 Hammersmith-Acton Works
10/12
1x C6 Acton Works-Northwood
16/12
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
2x C6 Hammersmith-Neasden
18/12
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
20/12
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
10/1
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
13/1
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
1x C6 Hammersmith-Neasden
15/1
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood
10/2
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood
2x C6 Hammersmith-Neasden
1x C6 Lillie Bridge-Neasden
12/2
1x C6 Neasden-Northwood

Which will leave:
From 19/11:
H&C: -1peak(1)M-F, (1)SAT, (1)SUN.
Circle: (11)M-Th, (10)FO, -1(11)SAT, -1(10)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

From 8/12:
H&C: +1late morning&PM(2)M-F, +1PM(1)SAT, -1(0)SUN.
Circle: -5(6)M-F, -4(7)SAT, -2(8)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

From 16/12:
H&C: -1(1late morning&PM)M-F, -1(0)SAT, (0)SUN.
Circle: -1(5)M-F, -1(6)SAT, -1(7)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

From 13/1:
H&C: (1late morning&PM)M-F, (0)SAT, (0)SUN.
Circle: -3(2)M-F, -3(3)SAT, -3(4)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

From afternoon of 10/2:
H&C: -1(0)M-F, (0)SAT, (0)SUN.
Circle: -2(0)M-F, -3(0)SAT, -4(0)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

 

[Mikey C]

More C Stock going soon:
1/11
1x C6 Barking-Northwood
1x C6 Barking-Neasden
2/11
3x C6 Barking-Neasden
2x C6 Hammersmith-Neasden
4/11
1x C6 Hammersmith-Northwood

Which will leave:
H&C: 1x M-F, 1x SAT, 1x SUN
circle: 9x M-F, 11x SAT, 9x SUN

Do those numbers include the Wimbleware trains, which are still entirely C stock?

 

[Dstock7080]

H&C and Circle trains are in the numbers not District Line as these are not being replaced quite yet.
District: 8x daily

 

[Julian G]

Do those numbers include the Wimbleware trains, which are still entirely C stock?

Nope, Wimbleware is still 8x C-Stocks Mon-Sun

 

[jon0844]

Because the doors, sdo, door lights and other associated equipment is an MVDC safety tested system and the DVA is not...!

That does indeed make sense.

There are notices that show which doors might not open even when the red light doesn't show.

Here would be a great place for an eInk sign that, once the train diagram is set, could actually show the station names where said door won't open.. and stay set throughout.

The actual warning light would then become secondary, to a degree.

No safety issue, bar it showing the wrong information for some reason (but if linked to the PIS, that shouldn't be a problem).

 

[bb21]

Does anyone have gen on how many sets are still left in service, and their identity?

 

[Dstock7080]

My post 169 gives the latest:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1605247&postcount=169

Which will leave:
From 19/11:
H&C: -1peak(1)M-F, (1)SAT, (1)SUN.
Circle: (11)M-Th, (10)FO, -1(11)SAT, -1(10)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

From 8/12:
H&C: +1late morning&PM(2)M-F, +1PM(2)SAT, -1(0)SUN.
Circle: -5(6)xM-F, -4(7)SAT, -2(8)SUN.
District: (8) daily.

 

[bb21]

I assume that a final withdrawal date has not yet been decided?

 

[Julian G]

I assume that a final withdrawal date has not yet been decided?

May 2014

 

[Nym]

May 2014

Is the current target but needs a lot of things to fall into place before it can happen...

 

[317 forever]

This suggests that a majority of Circle as well as H&C diagrams are now S7. I last rode a C class on 29.9.12 and saw some last August. I doubt I shall see many if any again, as I shall not be back in London until March or April.

 

[Domh245]

There should still be some knocking around on the Wimblewares at that point. They are supposed to all be gone by about mid 2014.