TfL Fares Increase 2014

[duncanp]

Does anyone have any idea on when TfL are going to announce details of next year's fare increase, or what is causing the delay?

From past memory they usually announce details well before this time of the year.

 

[radamfi]

Does anyone have any idea on when TfL are going to announce details of next year's fare increase, or what is causing the delay?

From past memory they usually announce details well before this time of the year.

I was thinking that too. Last year the increase was announced on 7 November. I suspect the mayor is in a difficult position regarding funding, hence the delay.

 

[duncanp]

I can't help remembering during the 1970's when British Rail's annual fare increase was delayed by a month for political reasons.

The now defunct Punch magazine ran a brilliant cartoon which had the following words coming out of a station tannoy - "British Rail apologise for the late arrival of your fares increase. This is due to snow on the line and unforeseen difficulties with the Price Commission" (Yes I am showing my age)

Going back to TfL, it might also be nice if they could tell us what services they are going to run over the Christmas period soon, and possibly upload the data to the journey planner before 25th December. (Last year, it was less than a week before Christmas before they uploaded the data)

 

[radamfi]

At least TfL have a set time each year for the fare rise. On buses outside London, fares can change at any time with no notice.

 

[Domh245]

Going back to TfL, it might also be nice if they could tell us what services they are going to run over the Christmas period soon, and possibly upload the data to the journey planner before 25th December. (Last year, it was less than a week before Christmas before they uploaded the data)

I know that they do publish track closures at least 6 months in advance now(should link to the correct PDF for whenever you read it: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/track-closures.pdf )
I think that this is integrated into Journey Planner,but I'm not 100% sure

 

[bicbasher]

I seem to remember one year during Ken Livingstone's tenure, he sneaked in a fare rise during the summer!

 

[duncanp]

Knowing the track closures is fine, but it doesn't tell you the time of the last bus or tube on Christmas Eve, or the first bus or tube on Boxing Day. Nor does it enable you to use the journey planner.

 

[Be3G]

In terms of first buses on Boxing Day, last year TfL ran a full Sunday service on the day, with (if I remember correctly) 24-hour routes starting at about 6am.

 

[Deerfold]

Knowing the track closures is fine, but it doesn't tell you the time of the last bus or tube on Christmas Eve, or the first bus or tube on Boxing Day. Nor does it enable you to use the journey planner.

Usually day services run until the end of service with 24-hour routes running until around midnight.

 

[paddington]

I seem to remember one year during Ken Livingstone's tenure, he sneaked in a fare rise during the summer!

Well, there was a lot of fanfare about his fare decrease (£1 to 90p) in September (that wasn't completely a decrease since caps and bus passes stayed the same) but people forgot that he had raised the prices from 80p (though admittedly £1 before 0930) just 9 months before.

 

[radamfi]

The average fares rise has been limited to inflation (3.1%) rather than the 4.1% expected for National Rail.

Only three tube fares will increase by 10p: Zone 1 peak and off-peak and Zone 1-2 off-peak
PAYG caps frozen
Bus singles up to £1.45, bus daily cap and cash fare frozen
7 Day Bus & Tram up 80p to £20.40
Zones 1-2 and Zones 1-4 paper off-peak Travelcards withdrawn, leaving just Zones 1-6, frozen at 2013 prices.
Anytime paper Day Travelcards and Period Travelcards rise in line with National Rail fares.

 

[jon0844]

At least TfL have a set time each year for the fare rise. On buses outside London, fares can change at any time with no notice.

My bus operator has always given notice.. usually an A4 poster stuck behind the driver, with small text and no actual idea of how much the fare increase will be (just that some will rise and some might be frozen). Then you can't find that on their website either and so only find out on the day!

 

[theblackwatch]

The average fares rise has been limited to inflation (3.1%) rather than the 4.1% expected for National Rail.

Only three tube fares will increase by 10p: Zone 1 peak and off-peak and Zone 1-2 off-peak
PAYG caps frozen
Bus singles up to £1.45, bus daily cap and cash fare frozen
7 Day Bus & Tram up 80p to £20.40
Zones 1-2 and Zones 1-4 paper off-peak Travelcards withdrawn, leaving just Zones 1-6, frozen at 2013 prices.
Anytime paper Day Travelcards and Period Travelcards rise in line with National Rail fares.

Still no sign of a Zone 1-9 travelcard then?

 

[Deerfold]

Still no sign of a Zone 1-9 travelcard then?

There's a Zone 1-9 travelcard already.

Fares here:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

Daily is £20.40 peak / £12.10 off-peak

 

[Tetchytyke]

Zones 1-2 and Zones 1-4 paper off-peak Travelcards withdrawn, leaving just Zones 1-6, frozen at 2013 prices.

Ouch.

Anytime paper Day Travelcards and Period Travelcards rise in line with National Rail fares.

Double ouch.

Does that now mean a paper period Travelcard will now cost more than an Oyster one? Interesting.

ETA: Just read the press release. No, it means those of us who have period Travelcards (so anyone living in London then) will be paying more than inflation yet again.

 

[simple simon]

getting rid of / killing off the 1-2 and 1-4 paper ODTC's represents a significant fares hike for those of us who used them. Its bad enough the 2-6 and 2-9 are no more... I used these and now travel a lot less because I cannot afford the higher fares via z1 (the loss of the 2-9 saw an almost 100% increase in travel costs - the 1-9 was just 20p less than twice the price of the 2-9)

its a slippery slope....


no doubt within a few years all one day ride at will tickets will be withdrawn... with 'low usage' being used as a reason that the public will accept.


I wonder how soon before the Dutch system is implemented whereby holders of all RFID tickets, even monthly / annual Travelcards need to touch-in/out at all times? ie: full tracking of all our movements.


Simon

 

[jon0844]

The way you write the 'full tracking' suggests you believe some sinister masterplan to monitor everyone? I'm really not bothered about that given how many people travel every day.

If the foibles of Oyster can be fixed, I can see that a Travelcard will be less enticing for a lot of people, as the price cap will serve the same purpose.

And then there's contactless payment cards.. so presumably there needs to be a touch in/out to work out how much to debit on the card (and if there will be any form of price capping on those too).

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can't imagine full tracking will be able to be implemented unless NRCoC are re-written. I'm sure they will be at some point, but not now.

As it stands, I don't really care if TfL know that I get on the Northern Line at Highgate at 0758 every morning and get off it again at Angel at 0833.

 

[bb21]

What's the point of withdrawing Zones 1-2 and 1-4 paper Off-Peak Day Travelcards if the Zones 1-6 ones, and the Anytime versions, are still kept? The same hardware and software are still having to be maintained.

The cynic in me feels that there is a plot going on, with TfL hellbent on forcing everyone onto Oyster (and I wonder why :roll. I wonder how much longer before paper tickets will disappear in London completely.

I am not the least bit surprised, after the palava with the removal of the Zones 2-6 and 2-9 Day Travelcards/caps. Another kick in the teeth for people who for whatever reason do not wish to use Oyster.

Another theory is that this is TfL's underhanded way of forcing through a fares hike. I witness plenty of people who buy these soon-to-be withdrawn products. They will either now be forced to fork out for extra zones that they don't need, or allow TfL to keep their £5 deposits and earn interest on them. There is always a catch when the headline reads that there would be no price rises for many fares. Of course, this way it does not have a negative impact on the percentage figures for overall fare rises. Spin, spin and more spin. Same old.

 

[bicbasher]

What's the point of withdrawing Zones 1-2 and 1-4 paper Off-Peak Day Travelcards if the Zones 1-6 ones, and the Anytime versions, are still kept? The same hardware and software are still having to be maintained.

The cynic in me feels that there is a plot going on, with TfL hellbent on forcing everyone onto Oyster (and I wonder why :roll. I wonder how much longer before paper tickets will disappear in London completely.

I am not the least bit surprised, after the palava with the removal of the Zones 2-6 and 2-9 Day Travelcards/caps. Another kick in the teeth for people who for whatever reason do not wish to use Oyster.

Another theory is that this is TfL's underhanded way of forcing through a fares hike. I witness plenty of people who buy these soon-to-be withdrawn products. They will either now be forced to fork out for extra zones that they don't need, or allow TfL to keep their £5 deposits and earn interest on them. There is always a catch when the headline reads that there would be no price rises for many fares. Of course, this way it does not have a negative impact on the percentage figures for overall fare rises. Spin, spin and more spin. Same old.

Not forgetting contactless, which will be introduced at some point in 2014. The axing of the 1-2, 1-4 off-peak one day paper travelcards is the final push to get those people who don't mind paying that little bit more for the flexibility of the paper ticket onto Oyster (and contactless).

However, if for some reason the ticket office is closed or the Oyster reader on the TVM's is not working, I'll have to pay an extra 90p for a 1-6 travelcard. (I live in Zone 3)

Zone 1-2 One Day Travelcards are still popular with tourists. I've seen people at Charing Cross and Leicester Square hand in their Oyster and spend the £5 deposit towards a travelcard for their last day in town.

If you look at the figures, it's bus passengers, who are the poorest, either on benefits or the low paid who are paying through the roof with the 7 day Bus & Tram Pass going over the £20 barrier for the first time, along with Travelcard users who I suspect are subsidising the freeze in PAYG outside Zone 1.

 

[Be3G]

Do we know for certain that the off-peak 1–2 and 1–4 caps are being retained? I know it sounds like I'm reading more in to this than perhaps I should be, but I remember when the 2–6 travelcard and cap were removed, TfL made nary a mention of the cap – the only publicity was about the paper product, citing low usage. (Helpfully not mentioning how many more people made use of the cap…)

Edit: similarly, I expect the price of monthly and annual bus passes to increase too; as usual, TfL only mention price rises to the 7-day ones, probably because (as we know) the prices of the others are based on multiples of that 7-day rate.

Edit again: I've found more details here. One of my above predictions is correct: 1–2 and 1–4 off-peak caps are staying after all, but longer bus pass seasons are increasing as expected.

 

[radamfi]

getting rid of / killing off the 1-2 and 1-4 paper ODTC's represents a significant fares hike for those of us who used them. Its bad enough the 2-6 and 2-9 are no more... I used these and now travel a lot less because I cannot afford the higher fares via z1 (the loss of the 2-9 saw an almost 100% increase in travel costs - the 1-9 was just 20p less than twice the price of the 2-9)

its a slippery slope....


no doubt within a few years all one day ride at will tickets will be withdrawn... with 'low usage' being used as a reason that the public will accept.


I wonder how soon before the Dutch system is implemented whereby holders of all RFID tickets, even monthly / annual Travelcards need to touch-in/out at all times? ie: full tracking of all our movements.


Simon

Southern's Key Card already requires the user to touch in and touch out on season tickets.

https://www.southernrailway.com/smart-card/faq/

"You are required to always touch in and touch out on every journey as per the conditions of use. If you do not touch in and touch out we reserve the right to disable your key."

Undoubtedly there is a long running trend towards discouraging season ticket use (day/week/month) in favour of pay as you go. Season tickets have risen consistently more than PAYG fares over many years, especially with the introduction of particularly cheap PAYG fares (e.g. the £1.50 Zones 2-6 off-peak fare).

However, there are advantages of full tracking as the Dutch do. Full tracking gives the transport operators/authorities a very accurate picture of usage, without the cost and errors associated with surveys.

 

[Deerfold]

If you look at the figures, it's bus passengers, who are the poorest, either on benefits or the low paid who are paying through the roof with the 7 day Bus & Tram Pass going over the £20 barrier for the first time, along with Travelcard users who I suspect are subsidising the freeze in PAYG outside Zone 1.

Well the travelcard costs always have to go up to make sure the TOCs get their share...

 

[maniacmartin]

Well the travelcard costs always have to go up to make sure the TOCs get their share...

Perhaps we need a TfL-only Travelcard

 

[radamfi]

What's the point of withdrawing Zones 1-2 and 1-4 paper Off-Peak Day Travelcards if the Zones 1-6 ones, and the Anytime versions, are still kept? The same hardware and software are still having to be maintained.

TfL probably want to withdraw all paper Travelcards but are prevented from doing so by the TOCs. The TOCs probably want to be able to keep the Outboundary Travelcards and that may only be possible by keeping the Inboundary Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard in existence.

 

[Deerfold]

Perhaps we need a TfL-only Travelcard

Bring back the LT card?

 

[bb21]

Bring back the LT card?

If the LT card is ever brought back, I doubt it will offer Railcard discounts without the involvement of NR.

The LT card also did not offer off-peak discounts, with only a peak version iirc.

 

[Cletus]

Here's the link and some of the content of today's press release (can't see elsewhere).

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/29040.aspx

2014 Transport for London fares frozen in real terms to help ease cost of living for Londoners
The Mayor of London Boris Johnson today delivered on his commitment to bear down on transport costs in the Capital by confirming that fares for Transport for London (TfL) services will be frozen in real terms in 2014, with an average rise of RPI only (3.1 per cent) from 2 January and a freeze on many fares at 2013 prices.

...cont'd...

Further details of the new fares are set out in the tables below, but the key elements of the January 2014 fares package are:

On the Tube, only three fares, the Zone 1 peak and off-peak single tickets and the Zone 1-2 off-peak single ticket, will increase by 10p
Oyster pay as you go caps frozen for the second year running
On the Buses, the pay as you go fare on Oyster and contactless payment card increases 5p to £1.45 while the daily cap and cash fare is frozen
The 7 Day Bus & Tram Pass will increase by 80p to £20.40
The off-peak One Day paper Travelcard range will be simplified to the Zone 1-6 off peak ticket only and it is frozen at 2013 prices. Anytime One Day paper Travelcards rise in line with NR fares
7 Day Travelcards, and corresponding monthly and annual Travelcards, increase by the 4.1 per cent average reflecting the link with regulated National Rail fares
From 2 January, fares on the Emirates Air Line will also increase by 10p except for multi-trip Oyster fares for regular users which will remain at £1.60. This is an overall increase of 3.2 per cent. It will be the first time fares have increased on the Emirates Air Line, which has now carried over 3 million passengers

 

[bicbasher]

If the LT card is ever brought back, I doubt it will offer Railcard discounts without the involvement of NR.

The LT card also did not offer off-peak discounts, with only a peak version iirc.

It also had restrictions, such as you couldn't use it between Queens Park and Harrow and Wealdstone on the Bakerloo line and couldn't be used on NR at all, even after 0930.

The Anytime Day Travelcard was a massive improvement.

Incidentally PAYG fares on NR are going up, in my case, the Zone 1-3 peak fare on NR will be the same as the TfL one on Oyster, although mixed mode via Zone 1 is frozen.

 

[Be3G]

Mixed-mode via zone 1 isn't frozen at all, either peak or off-peak, except for fares involving zones 7–9 – there're full fare tables in the annexe of the document I linked to earlier. Contributing to that is an increase in the peak zone 1 mixed-mode add-on by 10p.