Borders Railway - Now Open

[railjock]

My apologies. I should have made reference to the Glencorse branch line, that branched off at Millerhill and to the best of my knowledge served colleries and stations at Gilmerton, Loanhead, Roslin and Glencorse (according to an ancient somewhat dog-eared map).

It could be as the Borders railway breaches that line a mile or so past Millerhill. I'm not sure which photo is being referred to though.
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My apologies. I should have made reference to the Glencorse branch line, that branched off at Millerhill and to the best of my knowledge served colleries and stations at Gilmerton, Loanhead, Roslin and Glencorse (according to an ancient somewhat dog-eared map).

I've seen the photo now and I think it is just an access road.

 

[onyxcrowle]

thank you for the answer to my query about the chord. Any idea why electrification foundations are in and how far south it will go? I wonder if it might Go as far as Gorebridge

 

[railjock]

thank you for the answer to my query about the chord. Any idea why electrification foundations are in and how far south it will go? I wonder if it might Go as far as Gorebridge

I don't know I'm afraid.

A more negative article from yesterday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25035749


The decision to build the new Borders railway has been described as "insane" by the Institute of Economic Affairs.

The think tank said the project was "exceedingly poor value for money".

But the claims were rejected by Transport Minister Keith Brown, who insisted the line would provide a major economic boost to the Borders.

The railway link between Edinburgh and Tweedbank in the Borders is due to be completed by 2015 and will cost £294m to construct.

The IEA's criticism is focused on the benefit cost ratio (BCR) for the project contained in Transport Scotland's own business case.

The figure is 0.5, which means that for every pound of taxpayers' money invested in the scheme, there will be a return of only 50p.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

We think there are far wider benefits and values to this project”

Keith Brown Transport minister

Dr Richard Wellings of the IEA told BBC Scotland: "Even looking at the official figures, this is just about the worst value project you can find.

"The whole project's insane. The average strategic road scheme has a benefit cost ratio of around five, which is ten times higher than the Borders railway, so this is a gross misallocation of resources, particularly when there are still huge problems on the road network in Scotland."

The transport minister, Keith Brown, described the IEA as a "right-wing think tank", arguing the benefits to the wider economy generated by investing in public transport would outweigh the costs.

He said: "I think the clue is in the extreme language which is being used.

"In my view (the IEA) tend to put a price on everything, but don't understand the value of these things. We think there are far wider benefits and values to this project.

"Although the BCR is important, and we have to have regards to the return on investment, I think we also have to understand the wider benefits which we have."
Property market

There is already some evidence of an upturn in the property market along the route of the new railway, with buy-to-let investors showing interest in the type of homes which would appeal to commuters travelling to Edinburgh for work.

Carolyn Bowick of the property company, Orchard and Shipman, said: "Even with the railway a couple of years from completion, we're already having inquiries from landlords who're looking for portfolio investments in the Borders.

"There's a really strong demand because of the opportunities here to buy maybe 10, 12 or 15 properties and see an excellent return on your investment."

Transport experts have urged caution on claims that schemes like the Borders railway do provide a wider economic boost than the official calculations suggest.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

In Scotland you have a fantastic record on being bold on railway re-openings. You've built it and they have come”

Nigel Harris Rail magazine

Prof Tom Rye of Lund University in Sweden, who has given evidence to the Scottish Parliament on the subject, said: "It is immensely difficult to show empirically that investment in transport schemes leads to economic growth overall.

"It may redistribute growth towards certain areas by changing patterns of accessibility, but that depends on whether poor accessibility is the biggest constraint on economic growth in the area.

"Since the new railway will not radically improve the accessibility of the Borders, except to central Edinburgh perhaps, but not to other major employment locations such as West Lothian and West Edinburgh, then it is difficult to see how it will improve the Borders economy, even if accessibility is a major constraint on the area's economic growth."

But rail industry commentators have praised the Scottish government's transport policies, arguing it is important for politicians to look beyond benefit cost ratio calculations.

Nigel Harris, the managing editor of Rail magazine, said: "Wherever you get decisions made closer to the people, you get better railways and better transport.

"In Scotland you have a fantastic record on being bold on railway re-openings. You've built it and they have come.

"Scotland has been bold in the past and it should continue being so."

The Campaign for Borders Rail said it was "extremely sceptical of this grossly pessimistic forecast".

Chairman Simon Walton said: "I cannot think of any region or community that has failed to benefit from a rail project, and I cannot think of a rail project that has not gone on to greatly exceed expectations of patronage.

"The railway has overwhelming support in the Borders - business and community groups already express great anticipation."

 

[joeykins82]

Weren't the IEA the ones who claimed that HS2 would cost over £80bn by being disingenuous?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Weren't the IEA the ones who claimed that HS2 would cost over £80bn by being disingenuous?

I think they're the ones. They should just rename themselves 'The Milton Friedman Fan Club' and be done with the pretense... :roll:

 

[YorkshireBear]

This project is not about a good BCR it is about creating a catalyst for regeneration in a deprived area. That has always been stated.

 

[tomatwark]

Chairman Simon Walton said: "I cannot think of any region or community that has failed to benefit from a rail project, and I cannot think of a rail project that has not gone on to greatly exceed expectations of patronage.

"The railway has overwhelming support in the Borders - business and community groups already express great anticipation."


I don't know where Simon Walton is based but in the part of the borders I live the railway is seen as a white elephant, which will see the service to Tweedbank cut back to a couple of trains in the morning and evening within 5 years of it opening, so it does not have overwhelming support.

I hope I am wrong and it is a success but my gut feeling is that the southern end of the line will be used in the morning and evening only.

Tom

 

[Buttsy]

I can think of only 2 new lines in the past 40 years that have proved failures: Sinifin branch (misjudged demand from the factory) and the original Corby reopening (stock failures and lack of through services), every other line re-opening seems to have been a success so I expect the Borders line to be one too, though not necessarily to the scale of Alloa, for example.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Dr Richard Wellings of the IEA told BBC Scotland: "Even looking at the official figures, this is just about the worst value project you can find.

"The whole project's insane. The average strategic road scheme has a benefit cost ratio of around five, which is ten times higher than the Borders railway, so this is a gross misallocation of resources, particularly when there are still huge problems on the road network in Scotland."

The transport minister, Keith Brown, described the IEA as a "right-wing think tank", arguing the benefits to the wider economy generated by investing in public transport would outweigh the costs.

He said: "I think the clue is in the extreme language which is being used.

"In my view (the IEA) tend to put a price on everything, but don't understand the value of these things. We think there are far wider benefits and values to this project.

Nice to see Ricard Wellings and the IEA on top form usual :roll: Good job Keith Brown has got the response in to unlike the report into HS2 published earlier this year which went unchallenged in the media.

 

[railjock]

Anger over timetabling. Personally I'm more annoyed that there are so few trains going to the west of the city effectively ending Edinburgh Crossrail.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-25269479


A campaign group has claimed Transport Scotland has "reneged" on promised maximum journey times on the Borders to Edinburgh railway.

It comes after a draft timetable was issued for consultation this week.

The Campaign for Borders Rail (CBR) has voiced its anger at the number of services taking longer than 55 minutes to complete the journey.

Transport Scotland said 98% of journeys would be under one hour with room for "more positive timetable solutions".

CBR chairman Simon Walton said journey times of 55 minutes or less had been promised between Tweedbank and Edinburgh since 2009.

He said failure to meet that target would reduce the ability of trains to "compete with the car".

"On Mondays to Fridays, no fewer than 26 out of 33 trains from Edinburgh to Tweedbank will take longer than the promised 55 minutes," he said.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

The draft Borders timetable offers two trains per hour with a fastest journey time of 54 minutes”

Transport Scotland spokesman

"Journey times will average 37mph - fine during the peak hours when traffic congestion hampers car speeds in and around Edinburgh - but just not good enough at off-peak times when the roads are much clearer.

"On Saturdays, a paltry two out of 33 trains to Tweedbank will achieve the maximum 55 minutes laid down by Transport Scotland in 2009."

He said CBR believed that the timetable included "padding" to compensate for service unreliability due to a reduction in double-track provision on the route.

"We all want the Borders Railway to be as successful as other rail route re-openings in Scotland, but there is now a serious worry that short-termist thinking will hamper what could and should be an exemplary train service," he said.

"We need a strategic vision from Transport Scotland instead of broken promises."
'Existing stock'

A Transport Scotland spokesman said the services would bring "employment, economic and social benefits" to the Borders and Midlothian.

"Over 98% of the journeys will take passengers from one end to the other in under an hour," he said.

"The draft Borders timetable offers two trains per hour with a fastest journey time of 54 minutes.

"This was based on existing rolling stock in the current fleet.

"We have encouraged bidders for the next franchise to come forward with even more positive timetable solutions offering improvements in journey times in line with passenger expectations."

He said consultation on the draft timetable was under way with key stakeholders by ScotRail, and they would report back to Transport Scotland with the results next month.

Work should be completed on the Borders to Edinburgh railway by 2015

 

[fegguk]

any idea where you can look at the draft timetable

 

[railjock]

any idea where you can look at the draft timetable

I'm afraid not. Google isn't my friend on this one.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don't know where Simon Walton is based but in the part of the borders I live the railway is seen as a white elephant, which will see the service to Tweedbank cut back to a couple of trains in the morning and evening within 5 years of it opening, so it does not have overwhelming support.

I hope I am wrong and it is a success but my gut feeling is that the southern end of the line will be used in the morning and evening only.

Tom

Possibly relevant: The UK must have dozens of successful railways where most patronage is to a big city at one end of the line and where as a result, trains can look fairly deserted at the other end of the line, with passenger numbers building up as you get nearer the big city (One example: London-Alton). In that kind of scenario where passenger numbers to the big city build up over a number of small stations, with no single station contributing the bulk of them, you know that trains will be relatively empty at the far end of the line - and that'll be true no matter how far out you run trains to. Cutting a train back to not serve the outermost stations on that basis doesn't make sense because you'd be removing the passengers who are travelling furthest (and therefore paying the most), and because those passengers still contribute to making the train very busy at the big-city end of the line. Hence, those lines sensibly remain with good services throughout their route. I would have thought Edinburgh-Tweedbank would be no different in that regard.

 

[Altnabreac]

I'm afraid not. Google isn't my friend on this one.

Campaign for Borders Rail had this to say about the document:

The timetable consultation document was issued to SEStran, Scottish Borders Council, Midlothian Council, City of Edinburgh Council and Passenger Focus

So if you want to see it, your best bet is probably to drop an FOI request to one of those organisations.

Also seems likely that CBR have seen it as well so you could always ask them for a copy.

Have to say I'm more relaxed about this than CBR are. Most of the journey times are still pretty fast with only the odd one over the hour mark. Most of the initial demand on the line is likely to be from Midlothian anyway so fast Tweedbank journey times are not essential to the initial success of the project.

Possibly relevant: The UK must have dozens of successful railways where most patronage is to a big city at one end of the line and where as a result, trains can look fairly deserted at the other end of the line, with passenger numbers building up as you get nearer the big city (One example: London-Alton). In that kind of scenario where passenger numbers to the big city build up over a number of small stations, with no single station contributing the bulk of them, you know that trains will be relatively empty at the far end of the line - and that'll be true no matter how far out you run trains to. Cutting a train back to not serve the outermost stations on that basis doesn't make sense because you'd be removing the passengers who are travelling furthest (and therefore paying the most), and because those passengers still contribute to making the train very busy at the big-city end of the line. Hence, those lines sensibly remain with good services throughout their route. I would have thought Edinburgh-Tweedbank would be no different in that regard.

Excellent point. Some people keep complaining that the Airdrie - Bathgate project is a failure because trains are relatively empty when going through Caldercruix etc and don't fill up until Uphall or Easterhouse. Actually this means that they've got it just right!

Effectively Airdrie - Bathgate is like 2 overlapping branch lines that serve Livingston - Glasgow and Coatbridge - Edinburgh. The middle section has to be quieter in order to allow capacity at each end.

If the trains were packed solid before Bathgate/Airdrie so no one could get on at the last few stops into Glasgow / Edinburgh it would mean they had the stock provision very wrong.

 

[william]

I can think of only 2 new lines in the past 40 years that have proved failures: Sinifin branch (misjudged demand from the factory) and the original Corby reopening (stock failures and lack of through services), every other line re-opening seems to have been a success so I expect the Borders line to be one too, though not necessarily to the scale of Alloa, for example.

You can add the Weardale railway to that list.

 

[railjock]

Have to say I'm more relaxed about this than CBR are. Most of the journey times are still pretty fast with only the odd one over the hour mark. Most of the initial demand on the line is likely to be from Midlothian anyway so fast Tweedbank journey times are not essential to the initial success of the project.

I agree. However, I think having to change at Waverly will be a disincentive to those wanting to travel west of the city centre and destroy the Edinburgh Crossrail concept.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I guess there answer to that will be that a lot of stuff to the west will already be or will soon become electric. I agree though.
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Chairman Simon Walton said: "I cannot think of any region or community that has failed to benefit from a rail project, and I cannot think of a rail project that has not gone on to greatly exceed expectations of patronage.

"The railway has overwhelming support in the Borders - business and community groups already express great anticipation."


I don't know where Simon Walton is based but in the part of the borders I live the railway is seen as a white elephant, which will see the service to Tweedbank cut back to a couple of trains in the morning and evening within 5 years of it opening, so it does not have overwhelming support.

I hope I am wrong and it is a success but my gut feeling is that the southern end of the line will be used in the morning and evening only.

Tom

I agree with you. I also hope im wrong but to me an electriffied commuter railway through midlothian which took pressure off the North/South Bridge>Newington>Dalkeith Road>Liberton coridore, the A68 and A7 and the long distance bus routes serving it and traveling to the borders would have made more sense. As I say I look forward to being wrong.↲

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2 further points - for everyone upset on timetabling, a comparison should be made with this and the fastest bus service currently offered and also bare in mind the road conditions referred to above which slows down the popular and well used X95 a lot at peek times but can cause problems at any time of day.

Finally, I hope the 158s which look set to run the service are going to get a tidy up inside? If not then it will be a justifiable reason for further critisism↲

 

[Altnabreac]

I guess there answer to that will be that a lot of stuff to the west will already be or will soon become electric. I agree though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




I agree with you. I also hope im wrong but to me an electriffied commuter railway through midlothian which took pressure off the North/South Bridge>Newington>Dalkeith Road>Liberton coridore, the A68 and A7 and the long distance bus routes serving it and traveling to the borders would have made more sense. As I say I look forward to being wrong.↲

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
2 further points - for everyone upset on timetabling, a comparison should be made with this and the fastest bus service currently offered and also bare in mind the road conditions referred to above which slows down the popular and well used X95 a lot at peek times but can cause problems at any time of day.

Finally, I hope the 158s which look set to run the service are going to get a tidy up inside? If not then it will be a justifiable reason for further critisism↲

I haven't seen the timetable but presumably it could still interwork with the Fife Circle without being electrified. Main benefit is people commuting to west Edinburgh so hopefully it wil have trains to and from South Gyle in the peaks. Off peak I can see there would be an advantage to a stand alone service in terms of reliability.

I can't see any benefit to Midlothian in having a rail link that doesn't serve the Borders. The BCR would be better owing to the smaller cost but it wouldn't get more than 2 tph so there is no advantage in it not extending to Borders.

The line was always going to have to wait its turn in the electrification queue whether it went to Gorebridge or Tweedbank. Busy existing commuter lines like East Kilbride have confirmed demand and then Fife Circle is also the first stage of Intercity electrification so will have a better case.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was the matter of timetabling and connectional services ever one that was put forward at any of the public meetings that took place in the early days of this scheme ?

 

[Eagle]

The line was always going to have to wait its turn in the electrification queue whether it went to Gorebridge or Tweedbank. Busy existing commuter lines like East Kilbride have confirmed demand and then Fife Circle is also the first stage of Intercity electrification so will have a better case.

Although the main problem with the Fife Circle is the Forth Bridge (high risk of arcking between the pantograph and the framework of the bridge).

 

[Zoidberg]

Although the main problem with the Fife Circle is the Forth Bridge (high risk of arcking between the pantograph and the framework of the bridge).

Would that not be mitigated by having the bridge metalwork at the same voltage as the OLE?

It was just a thought

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The eleventh in the series of the project e-newsletters for those who subscribed is out today.

 

[snowball]

Would that not be mitigated by having the bridge metalwork at the same voltage as the OLE?

It was just a thought

Then it would be quite difficult to have the rails at a potential 25kV different.

Especially for track workers.

 

[Zoidberg]

Then it would be quite difficult to have the rails at a potential 25kV different.

Especially for track workers.

Well, they could use big insulators to separate the bridge metalwork from the ground. But I suppose it could still be a hair-raising experience for track workers.

 

[Photohunter71]

Would that not be mitigated by having the bridge metalwork at the same voltage as the OLE?

It was just a thought

They're going via the Stirling,Alloa,Kincardine route as there are no plans to place catenary on the rail bridge.

 

[Blindtraveler]

which is a bit sad really as it means that the route via Dalmeny the bridge and to Inverkeithing will always be diezol. Is there not a solution to this? Electric fife circles would be a great help.

 

[kylemore]

I'm sure if the will and money is there a way will be found. It would be ludicrous if Electrification is decided upon for Fife and the line north to Dundee and Aberdeen that it should be stopped by a wee problem like that - if indeed the problem is that serious a solution will be found.

 

[Altnabreac]

I'm sure if the will and money is there a way will be found. It would be ludicrous if Electrification is decided upon for Fife and the line north to Dundee and Aberdeen that it should be stopped by a wee problem like that - if indeed the problem is that serious a solution will be found.

Indeed, I've never seen any evidence/proof that there is any insurmountable problem with electrification of the Forth Bridge.

The Scottish Government's Strategic Transport Projects Review from 2009 sets out the phasing of Scottish electrification with Phase 3 described as:

Electrification of routes between Edinburgh, Perth and Dundee including the Fife Circle.

This is still Scottish Government policy and the recent High Level Output Statement (HLOS) for CP5 (2014-19) required Network Rail to:

3.28 The Scottish Ministers require the rail industry in Scotland to work together to meet future reasonable passenger and freight capacity requirements. In addition to this, the Scottish Ministers require the following strategic projects to be developed to an appropriate level to inform potential future funding decisions:
Phase 3, 4 and 5 electrification in line with the conclusions of the STPR.

So in the next few years Network Rail will be developing detailed costs and technical specifications for how they will be delivering Forth Bridge electrification over the following Control Period (CP6 - 2020-2025).

If there are technical difficulties I would expect them to be advanced at this stage and solutions found. I also understand that one reason Network Rail have not previously been supportive of a World Heritage Site status for the Forth Bridge has been the potential for people to object to OHL equipment.

 

[HowardGWR]

The eleventh in the series of the project e-newsletters for those who subscribed is out today.

I just wondered, as an outsider, whether the village of Fountainhall is a *******isation of fountain haugh, as the other places on the route are so-named and I see that haugh means a sort of valley. Perhaps one of our Scottish colleagues could tell me if I am presuming too much. A number of locations there were '.....haugh'.

 

[fegguk]

I just wondered, as an outsider, whether the village of Fountainhall is a *******isation of fountain haugh, as the other places on the route are so-named and I see that haugh means a sort of valley. Perhaps one of our Scottish colleagues could tell me if I am presuming too much. A number of locations there were '.....haugh'.

The haugh is land in the bottom of a valley ie the flood plain either side of a river.