Cambrian hourly service consultation

[berneyarms]

They always did run. The 0845 just replaces the 0927

There is no 09:27 on Sundays.

Both in the 2013 and 2012 summer timetable, until September there is an 08:45 departure and then the next train at 13:27 (I'm looking at my GBTT from summer 2013 and 2012), and no 11:27 from Shrewsbury.

After September 1st, the 08:45 is cancelled and an 11:27 added in its place.

This year, both the 08:45 and the 11:27 will operate until the beginning of September.

 

[merlodlliw]

There is no 09:27 on Sundays.

Both in the 2013 and 2012 summer timetable, until September there is an 08:45 departure and then the next train at 13:27 (I'm looking at my GBTT from summer 2013 and 2012), and no 11:27 from Shrewsbury.

After September 1st, the 08:45 is cancelled and an 11:27 added in its place.

This year, both the 08:45 and the 11:27 will operate until the beginning of September.

Many thanks, I did have the impression a train around 1130 on Summer Sundays left Shrewsbury for Aber previous, this years 1127 is a late addition then ,ATW mentioned nothing about it in the May timetable draft I put up on the timetable page.I suppose ATW have spare stock due to the Cambrian Coast debacle.

 

[PHILIPE]

Hopefully, the Coast debacle will be over soon. Even so, permanent Timetable alterations would not be made on the basis of units temporarily available. There would be units available on a Sunday morning because the full Timetable doesn't start up until later than the Monday to Saturday service.

 

[merlodlliw]

Hopefully, the Coast debacle will be over soon. Even so, permanent Timetable alterations would not be made on the basis of units temporarily available. There would be units available on a Sunday morning because the full Timetable doesn't start up until later than the Monday to Saturday service.

You right of course, just my thoughts.

I have now seen later draft of the Sunday timetable for May, this includes the following.

Pocket timetable one , route 75.

train 1J09, (EG) ex Shrewsbury 0845
train 1J13 (HJ) ................... 1126

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Just had a trip to and from Aber - never have I seen the Cambrian in such a buoyant phase - got the 6 car 0930 back from the latter , - well deserved increment. (as a student there in 1976-79, we were lucky to have a service at all - and things were grim on all accounts. (line having been washed out Mach - Ynyslas previously) - a diet of Met Camms and Park Royals !....

 

[Gareth Marston]

Just had a trip to and from Aber - never have I seen the Cambrian in such a buoyant phase - got the 6 car 0930 back from the latter , - well deserved increment. (as a student there in 1976-79, we were lucky to have a service at all - and things were grim on all accounts. (line having been washed out Mach - Ynyslas previously) - a diet of Met Camms and Park Royals !....

still 13 months and a lot of detail to be seen before I get carried away to much!

The working tt's from that time are on the link.

http://www.2d53.co.uk/TT/TTmenu.htm

 

[merlodlliw]

I was on my way To the Royal Welsh Showground yesterday,stuck in Newtown traffic for an hour,due to the three sets of traffic lights within 100 yards of each other, so called into Tessa Cohens "Newtown Cattle Market" store for a break ,what a name while in the car park at noon a four car 158 passed on its way to Aberyswyth, it appeared very well loaded.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I was on my way To the Royal Welsh Showground yesterday,stuck in Newtown traffic for an hour,due to the three sets of traffic lights within 100 yards of each other, so called into Tessa Cohens "Newtown Cattle Market" store for a break ,what a name while in the car park at noon a four car 158 passed on its way to Aberyswyth, it appeared very well loaded.

Yes looks like the numbers travelling this Easter will be high due to the good weather, the train you saw would have been the 1009 BHM ITNL to Aberystwyth/Barmouth. There was a considerable dip in the footfall figures for the coast stations between 2011/2012 & 2012/2013 reflecting the washout "summer" and Olympics in 2012. I was cycling on the Monsal Trail the old MidLand Railway route through the high peak last Tuesday shockingly busy with the sun shining. Extreme weather will cause more problems for the rural railway than just storm/ rainfall damage no doubt the depressed demand of washout summers will please some but the influx of extra travelers when we get the heat wave summers will catch them unawares.

RWS would have been brilliantly served by rail with Builth Wells station just opposite the main entrance on the town side where the Little Chef is now. Mid Wales's road system always falls over and grinds to a halt the main show week in July.

 

[merlodlliw]

The current Builth Road station is like walking into someones house, absolute no parking except pick up and drop off on the road 20 yards away, signage outside the station house says no parking. Then you have to guess which is the platform entrance its like is like a subway on the right.

I went to RWS Lantra pavilion for a H&S meeting with SWMBO,the paint was dry at the finish,if you get the jist.

Are you a member of "Railway Ramblers"? Monsal Trail etc

 

[Gareth Marston]

The current Builth Road station is like walking into someones house, absolute no parking except pick up and drop off on the road 20 yards away, signage outside the station house says no parking. Then you have to guess which is the platform entrance its like is like a subway on the right.

I went to RWS Lantra pavilion for a H&S meeting with SWMBO,the paint was dry at the finish,if you get the jist.

Are you a member of "Railway Ramblers"? Monsal Trail etc

No work full time! No time to ramble.

The Newbridge on Wye road scheme has cut off access to the station from the hamlet at Cwmbach which is where the buses run- not that there's any attempt to integrate services in Powys anyway! The Mid Wales line timetable in the final years only had 4 trains a day north of Builth Road Low Level and 6 south of Builth Wells however there were 9 between Builth Wells and Built Road Low Level so connecting to the Central Wales line which still had 8 trains a day.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a lovely stretch of the trackbed south of Builth around Erwood, where the old station is now a craft centre.
Being on the "wrong" side of the river makes it feel very remote.
The whole line from Three Cocks to Moat Lane would be a great tourist run today if it had survived.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

still 13 months and a lot of detail to be seen before I get carried away to much!

The working tt's from that time are on the link.

http://www.2d53.co.uk/TT/TTmenu.htm

Many thanks - the 0520 off Aber was always a bit fierce - memorably unheated one December morning ! (Park Royal of course) - freight was 3 times a week to Aber , and not well loaded usually.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There's a lovely stretch of the trackbed south of Builth around Erwood, where the old station is now a craft centre.
Being on the "wrong" side of the river makes it feel very remote.
The whole line from Three Cocks to Moat Lane would be a great tourist run today if it had survived.

A large amount of the trackbed is still extant or easily retrievable. The "mountain Section" between Llanidloes and Rhayader in particular. 1 in 60 for 7 miles up to Pantydwr summit (947 ft) from Llanidloes and seven miles down to Rhayader at 1 in 70. Gangers huts still in situ and ballast.

 

[merlodlliw]

No work full time! No time to ramble.

A large amount of the trackbed is still extant or easily retrievable. The "mountain Section" between Llanidloes and Rhayader in particular. 1 in 60 for 7 miles up to Pantydwr summit (947 ft) from Llanidloes and seven miles down to Rhayader at 1 in 70. Gangers huts still in situ and ballast.

Sounds a bit like the Bala to Ffestiniog line where it hangs onto the Mountains,Railway Ramblers have done a lot of tidying up,I still marvel at the viaduct.
Picture of the line here in this link. http://www.railwayramblers.org.uk/homepage/homepage.htm

 

[Gareth Marston]

Draft of proposed extra train times on Cambrian.

Aberystwyth Departures

0630 to BHM INTL
0830 to BHM INTL
1230 to BHM INTL
1830 to BHM INTL
2030 to MCH
2230 to MCH

Shrewsbury Departures

1025 to Aberystwyth
1630 to Aberystwyth
1830 to Aberystwyth
2030 to Aberystwyth

 

[John R]

The additional services are excellent news, but having seen the timings, I do wonder whether a further service each way would be of benefit.

If the 2030 from Aber returned to Shrewsbury and then turned straight around it would form a later (around 2240) last service as far as Machynlleth. One of the key aspects of connectivity of an area is "what's the latest I can leave X, Y or Z, and still get home". For example, from Cardiff this could take the latest departure from 1850 to 2017. And similarly give an extra hour in Birmingham or London.

Are there any operational considerations that would preclude this (eg overnight depot maintenance time)?

 

[47421]

All the additionals up in the AM running through to International, was that expected? Will they join services ex Chester at Shrewsbury?

 

[The Planner]

They will be joining, you cant fit extras in to International.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Seems unbalanced between SHR-BHI.
Maybe some 6-car workings are involved on that stretch.

 

[PHILIPE]

All the additionals up in the AM running through to International, was that expected? Will they join services ex Chester at Shrewsbury?

At a guess, the pattern would be to attach to the Holyhead to Birminghams at Shrewsbury and the unit which currently detaches at Shrewsbury and attaches to this would go to Aberystwyth in lieu.

 

[merlodlliw]

I suppose the winter storms have delayed ATW Table one(Cambrian/Howl etc) May to Dec timetable as all others are on the web

 

[Gareth Marston]

I suppose the winter storms have delayed ATW Table one(Cambrian/Howl etc) May to Dec timetable as all others are on the web

The 0630 from Aber will attach to a service from Holyhead to form the 0833 Salop to INTL.
The 1025 departure from Salop to Aber will be a portion off the 0909 INTL to Holyhead.
The 0830 from Aber will arrive Salop c1020 and attach to the train from Holyhead and go forward at 1033.
The 1230 from Aber will terminate at Salop c 1420 and then form the 1625 to Aber.
The 1830 from Aber will probably terminate Salop as there's no need for 4 cars to Brum at 2033.
The 1825 to Aber from Shrewsbury will be portion off the 1709 INTl to Holyhead meaning the 1833 Salop to INTL will be 2 car.
The 2025 to Aber from Salop will be portion off the 1909 INTl to Holhead and again this will leave the 2033 Salop to INTL as 2 car.

 

[Rhydgaled]

extra unit freed by Wrexham redouble to put in mix too.

When's the redouble due? If by May 2015, maybe that's why the extra Cambrians aren't happening until then.

With the mainline trains crossing at Dovey Junction, it's likely that the Coast line service will start and finish there - so no more splitting/joining.

Cue an outbreak of complaints from those on the coast line complaining about having a worse service (no through trains/needing to change at Dovey Junction).

Personally, I'm more worried about the capacity of the train east of Machynlleth / Dovey Junction (2-car vice 4-car today) than having to change, provided the connecting unit is there waiting or arrives immediately and will wait if the connecting service is delayed.

loco and stock diagram to Manchester is happening in may 15, rolling stock has been selected for overhaul, will release a 3 car 175 for a diagram reshuffle.

Is that definate? Any intel on what stock (67? 68? DVT?)

It could be heavily loaded from Chester, though. Many of theses long distance trains on the Marches pass through different time phases, i.e.quiet one end and busy at the other

You have a fair point,but the down Cardiffs to North Wales middle day,wont fill until the bigger areas of Salop/Wrexham and Chester.

That's one of the reasons I think the Cardiff-Holyhead should be reduced to 1-3 express workings with the regular 2hrly stopper being spilt into seperate workings at Chester (prefrably with the north Wales coast section extended to somewhere like Crewe).

The standard 'Anne' splitting trains plays at Smethwick Galton Bridge.

"Platform 3 for the xx xx Arriva Trains Wales service to Pwllheli and Aberystwyth. Calling at....."

Takes some time!

The announcement at Newtown is probably longer. Although slightly fewer stops by that point, it is in both English and Welsh. I was there once before ERTMS and I'm pretty sure the train had left before the announcement finished.

Draft of proposed extra train times on Cambrian.

Aberystwyth Departures

0630 to BHM INTL
0830 to BHM INTL
1230 to BHM INTL
1830 to BHM INTL
2030 to MCH
2230 to MCH

Shrewsbury Departures

1025 to Aberystwyth
1630 to Aberystwyth
1830 to Aberystwyth
2030 to Aberystwyth

Slightly supprised there's no 06:25 from Shrewsbury to form the 08:30 out of Aberystwyth. Also, it still looks like it requires two additional Cambrian diagrams so why not hourly 06:30 to 19:30 all day? Still, better than nothing I suppose. Is the full timetable available anywhere?

 

[Gareth Marston]

The draft tt I have uses the same number of units as now, 7 starting at Mach , 1 at Pwllheli. 4 of the 12 trains east of Machynlleth run as 4 car the rest 2 car.

 

[merlodlliw]

Rhydgaled.

When's the redouble due? If by May 2015, maybe that's why the extra Cambrians aren't happening until then.

The current contract with Network Rail & Welsh Gov gives May 2015 as new timetable with phase one completed (Rossett to Saltney), however the Minister is not too happy with the dogs dinner she has been sold, and changes may well be announced as regards the lost two miles, statement in May.
As for the Mark3s seen heading for Crewe,I presume these are the Gerald Spare Set,are retaining tanks to be fitted for North Wales/Mancherster runs to release one of the four coach 158s for the Cambrian.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 0630 from Aber will attach to a service from Holyhead to form the 0833 Salop to INTL.
The 1025 departure from Salop to Aber will be a portion off the 0909 INTL to Holyhead.
The 0830 from Aber will arrive Salop c1020 and attach to the train from Holyhead and go forward at 1033.
The 1230 from Aber will terminate at Salop c 1420 and then form the 1625 to Aber.
The 1830 from Aber will probably terminate Salop as there's no need for 4 cars to Brum at 2033.
The 1825 to Aber from Shrewsbury will be portion off the 1709 INTl to Holyhead meaning the 1833 Salop to INTL will be 2 car.
The 2025 to Aber from Salop will be portion off the 1909 INTl to Holhead and again this will leave the 2033 Salop to INTL as 2 car.

The 0833 off salop is currently made up of 2 car 158 from Wrexham and two car 158 from Holyhead,will this become 6 car to birmingham

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The draft tt I have uses the same number of units as now, 7 starting at Mach , 1 at Pwllheli. 4 of the 12 trains east of Machynlleth run as 4 car the rest 2 car.

Which makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, if more stock is not needed.
What are the loco-hauled trains for then?

 

[strettonarms96]

is it likely that marches services will see no re-jig timing/stock wise?

 

[merlodlliw]

Which makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, if more stock is not needed.
What are the loco-hauled trains for then?

With ATWs system of everythings running, im puzzled to see how the 8 158 cars the saturated Chester/Manchester early morning runs 0710 & 0740,will be retained, extra 158s on the Cambrian must be taken off some routes.

Thinking of Wrexham, Will the 0748 2 car 158 to Birmingham become a two car 175, or god forbid a 150 & terminate at Salop,this is an extra working due to Gerald pinching a Chester/Wrexham path a couple of years ago.
Gerald wont stop at Ruabon/Chirk or Gobowen.

However with the rumor factory in full production,why not use the spare Gerald set of mark3s now residing in Crewe works,while the rental is paid up for a couple of years,will Victoria have loco run around facilities,I know Piccadilly has none, or will it be DVTs?, ATW know they can not cull any 158 stock off the morning Chester/Manchester runs without a replacement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

is it likely that marches services will see no re-jig timing/stock wise?

Nothing has been mentioned about Salop/Hereford for 2015 by WG or ATW,all the trial extras are heading Cambrian & howL

 

[Rhydgaled]

Which makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, if more stock is not needed.
What are the loco-hauled trains for then?

Doesn't sound like additional LHCS is anything more than rumours at the moment, but I guess stock will need to be found for HOWL if Fishguard's service is to survive.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The current contract with Network Rail & Welsh Gov gives May 2015 as new timetable with phase one completed (Rossett to Saltney), however the Minister is not too happy with the dogs dinner she has been sold, and changes may well be announced as regards the lost two miles, statement in May.
As for the Mark3s seen heading for Crewe,I presume these are the Gerald Spare Set,are retaining tanks to be fitted for North Wales/Mancherster runs to release one of the four coach 158s for the Cambrian.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 0833 off salop is currently made up of 2 car 158 from Wrexham and two car 158 from Holyhead,will this become 6 car to birmingham

One of the three 158's can terminate at Salop and then get added to the following 0730 from Aber so the 0933 go forward to INTL as 4 car.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, if more stock is not needed.
What are the loco-hauled trains for then?

The tt I have will not cause any problems on a wet Wednesday in Winter but I can see issues in the summer months, perhaps the LHCS is a summer only job to free 158's?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Doesn't sound like additional LHCS is anything more than rumours at the moment, but I guess stock will need to be found for HOWL if Fishguard's service is to survive.

It's not a rumour they were moved to LNWR in Crewe last week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

is it likely that marches services will see no re-jig timing/stock wise?

Bound to be some re jigging of Holyhead to Cardiff services come May 15 but these will be the same trains a few minutes here and there different.