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Bad news for Pensioners, Commuters etc in South Yorkshire

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34D

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Indeed. The entitlement is very poorly advertised nonetheless.

Might that be because of the different media? I mean, I would expect it to be mentioned in braille magazines but not necessarily posters at stations.

It is probably worth mentioning here as a general point that the disabled/blind companion can only travel on a local basis.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, the Metro pass is only valid 0930-2300 same as the buses, although passengers are allowed travel after 2300 because, in Nexus' words, 'it would be better to get them home than leave them stranded'. You can also travel prior to 0930 if you have a Doctors appointment, are in full time education, or have a full time job (over 30 hours/week I believe).

Surely persons who work are the last people who should be given free travel?
 
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Deerfold

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Might that be because of the different media? I mean, I would expect it to be mentioned in braille magazines but not necessarily posters at stations.

Unfortunately as someone who went blind late in life she doesn't read braille and depends heavily on others to read things for her (and gets very frustrated having been very independent until her late 80s).

It is probably worth mentioning here as a general point that the disabled/blind companion can only travel on a local basis.

Officially, though companies can be more generous - we've been allowed to travel on cross boundary bus journeys before now with no further payment (but with full destination stated and a willingness for me to pay the further fare).
 

ModernRailways

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Surely persons who work are the last people who should be given free travel?

It all depends. It could be seen as assisting the disabled in getting to/from work and as such is also a boost for the economy.
 

dzug2

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. Also, as the operator who makes the journey is the 'foreign' coach operator not a local bus operator, the money leaves the area instead of staying.
.

Certainly some hotels in the southwest send coaches to eg the Midlands to pick up passengers - so it is not necessarily a 'foreign' coach operator
 

Tetchytyke

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The way some of you are debating ENCTS seems to be that it's full of middle class elderly holidaymakers abusing the system in tourist areas, draining the local council resources.

It's the same with welfare and immigration, people are too quick to see the negative and not how they can benefit society as a whole.

I don't think anyone is "abusing the system", but someone has to pay for the pass that gives you free travel on your holidays. It isn't the Government- the supposed budget for ENCTS is not ring-fenced, and council funding has been cut significantly- so who should it be?

As we're seeing, even PTEs are having to restrict what you get with your ENCTS, purely because of the cost. The old scheme was you paid a token fare on the bus and a token fare on the train. Now, because of the cost of the scheme, you don't get any discounts on the train at all. And that's before we consider the impact it's had on funding for things like AccessBus in West Yorkshire.

ENCTS was brought in as an election sop by Gordon Brown. It needs to be discarded because it is unaffordable and badly thought out.
 

Solent&Wessex

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I don't think anyone is "abusing the system", but someone has to pay for the pass that gives you free travel on your holidays. It isn't the Government- the supposed budget for ENCTS is not ring-fenced, and council funding has been cut significantly- so who should it be?

As we're seeing, even PTEs are having to restrict what you get with your ENCTS, purely because of the cost. The old scheme was you paid a token fare on the bus and a token fare on the train. Now, because of the cost of the scheme, you don't get any discounts on the train at all. And that's before we consider the impact it's had on funding for things like AccessBus in West Yorkshire.

ENCTS was brought in as an election sop by Gordon Brown. It needs to be discarded because it is unaffordable and badly thought out.

Most countys have concluded bus reviews, mainly as a result of the cost of concessionary travel. North Yorkshire is one such area which has done one recently.

The consultation documents said

"We are already committed to saving £94million over the four years ending 31 March 2015, but following recent announcements by the Government over future funding, we now need to find a further estimated £77million between 2015 and 2019.

Members of the council have agreed to start a number of public consultations on our proposals for saving this money.

Earlier this year we ran a consultation to gauge public support for reducing expenditure in particular areas. Reduced spending on concessionary fares and public transport were ranked high at that time. Whilst we are still committed to investing in public transport we have to look at reducing the amount of money we spend to support bus services in the county by £1.1million.

At present we spend £4.4m a year on subsidising the 20% of bus journeys which
are not commercially viable. They are provided by private bus companies and are
referred to as subsidised services because the Council pays the difference
between the cost of providing the service, the fares paid by passengers and
reimbursement for concessionary fares paid by the Council. We use competitive
tendering to get the best price for these services. We also work with the
Community and Voluntary sectors to enable them to provide alternative services
such as car schemes and Dial a Ride services.
In 2012/13, 3.3m passenger journeys were made on our subsidised services – the
average subsidy per passenger journey is £1.35. In most cases the services
subsidised by the Council are the only ones available to the communities they
serve.
The Council also pays the cost of concessionary bus passes. It is expected that
this will cost us £8.7m in 2013/14. This is a statutory scheme which cannot be
changed by the Council."

So ultimately they have to save the money from somewhere, the level of concessionary fare reimbursement strikes me as high, but not surprising. So they reduce subsidised bus services to save money, and then everyone who uses those buses loses out - fare payers and ENCTS pass holders. Prior to the ENCTS pass they would be spending no where near as much as the £8.7m on paying bus fares - as most people would have paid a fare of some description, even in their own areas. The scheme also affects bus operators directly, especially smaller operators who suffer reduced income and cash flow. Fares for other passengers go up as a result - also noted in NYCC documents.

So, whilst I agree with reduced price travel, I do not agree with a legal requirement to give free travel. It causes all sorts of problems. Not least that one of the buses I use to get to some pubs in the country is being withdrawn so I won't be able to visit said pubs!

Back on topic, the official brief has come out:

SYPTE have now confirmed changes to the current ENCTS travel scheme within the Travel
South Yorkshire area.
This brief will help you with any questions customers may ask you, as the scheme currently
allows travel on train within the Travel South Yorkshire area and also on direct Northern Rail
services from South Yorkshire to West Yorkshire.
From Monday 31 March 2014 concessionary (elderly and disabled person) travel passes issued
by Travel South Yorkshire will no longer be accepted on trains. This means that from this date
holders of these passes will cease to be able to travel for free on the train.
If asked:
• The pass is still valid for free travel on buses and trams in South Yorkshire between 0930 and
2300hrs on weekdays and at anytime on Bank Holidays and at weekends
• Do tell customers that the National Rail website provides details of the Senior Railcard and
Disabled Persons Railcard as alternative options for affected customers
• All other South Yorkshire tickets remain valid.
If customers have further questions, please refer them to South Yorkshire Traveline who can be
contacted via its website www.travelsouthyorkshire.com or telephone 01709 515151.
Please do not refer them to Customer Relations, any other Train Operator’s
Customer Relations Department or National Rail Enquiries.
 

ModernRailways

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• Do tell customers that the National Rail website provides details of the Senior Railcard and
Disabled Persons Railcard as alternative options for affected customers

The problem with that however is the fact that not all people with an ENCTS pass are eligible for the railcards. When I looked into it I'm not part of the people allowed a Railcard (other than 16-25). I have an ENCTS pass though, maybe something along the lines of, if you have an ENCTS pass you are entitled to a Disabled Railcard upon presentation of the ENCTS pass - you would need to buy the Railcard, you wouldn't be able to just use your ENCTS pass for the discount.
 

ECML180

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Certainly some hotels in the southwest send coaches to eg the Midlands to pick up passengers - so it is not necessarily a 'foreign' coach operator

Perhaps alien would have been a better word, I meant non-local, rather than coaches from outside the country.
 

34D

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Unfortunately as someone who went blind late in life she doesn't read braille and depends heavily on others to read things for her (and gets very frustrated having been very independent until her late 80s).



Officially, though companies can be more generous - we've been allowed to travel on cross boundary bus journeys before now with no further payment (but with full destination stated and a willingness for me to pay the further fare).

For a WY metro-issued. ENCTS companion pass, the companion can travel on cross-boundary journeys that start, finish or pass through West Yorks.

In general, the companion can't travel free wholly outside the county of issue.

If her pass is NY rather than Metro, then you may be interested to know that York and NY count as one area for the purposes of this rule.

Also, depending on how the drivers' ETM is configured, it is likely that it will still give him the option of 'companion yes' and many drivers would just go by that.
 

Deerfold

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For a WY metro-issued. ENCTS companion pass, the companion can travel on cross-boundary journeys that start, finish or pass through West Yorks.

In general, the companion can't travel free wholly outside the county of issue.

If her pass is NY rather than Metro, then you may be interested to know that York and NY count as one area for the purposes of this rule.

Also, depending on how the drivers' ETM is configured, it is likely that it will still give him the option of 'companion yes' and many drivers would just go by that.

It's a WY pass. I was quite surprised to get to Bridlington and back on it (as a companion). Having said that, there's no way she'd have made the journey on her own.
 

RogerB

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Don't remind me - I've got a whole list of places to visit and just managed one (Elesecar Heritage Centre).
 

natureboy

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In my view SYPTE are well within their rights to withdraw free train travel for OAPs and the disabled.
Do they not know there is something called a railcard which can be purchased to make train travel cheaper? The protests which they have staged at Barnsley give the impression they're a bunch of freeloaders; all out for what they can get for now't and to a large extent it disgusts me.
More recently I believe SYPTE have partly backed down and allowed half-fare train travel after 09:30. Fine. I personally have no problem with this; at least they're paying something; and it's what happens in West Yorkshire.
When I reach 60 or 65 I'll be more than happy to pay whatever fare is charged at that time. I am NOT a hypocrite!
 

natureboy

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ENCTS was brought in as an election sop by Gordon Brown. It needs to be discarded because it is unaffordable and badly thought out.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%. If it wasn't for the idiocy of the last Labour government starting concessionary travel we wouldn't have all these problems now. Anything that's free is always abused. When it started there was an ugly scene in Skipton when there were too many passengers for the last X84 to Leeds. If I'd have been the driver those with pre-booked tickets and fare paying passengers would have come first!

I hope the Tories win the next general election with a landslide and sort this country out once and for all! The Labour Party should just dissolve, because they're about as much use as a naturist beach in Antarctica! :D
 

RogerB

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........
I hope the Tories win the next general election with a landslide and sort this country out once and for all! The Labour Party should just dissolve, because they're about as much use as a naturist beach in Antarctica! :D

Hear! Hear!

And I'm sure they'll increase the state pension to that of a living wage so we wouldn't have to have all these expensive schemes, they could make a bonfire out of red tape, cut crime and the causes of crime and finally put an end to boom and bust, make large corporations pay the appropiate amount of tax, stop wasting money on IT systems that nobody understands, stop giving our money to emerging economies, keep British companies British &c&c&c&c
 

brompton rail

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Enhancements to concessionary travel

09/05/2014 12:34:19 PM


The new Sheffield City Region Combined Authority Transport Committee is being invited to consider whether concessionary travel arrangements for disabled and elderly people in South Yorkshire will be enhanced from Sunday 8 June.

The proposals, due to be discussed at the inaugural meeting of the Sheffield City Region Combined Authority Transport Committee on Monday 19 May, are that from 8 June disabled people, and where appropriate their carers, will be entitled to travel free on bus, tram and trains within South Yorkshire from the beginning of service to the end of service each day. Currently they are able to travel by bus and tram from 9.30am to 11pm Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and Bank Holidays.

In addition, from 8 June people who are entitled to an older persons concessionary pass will be able to travel on trains for a half fare (single or day return journeys) between 9.30am and 11pm Monday to Friday and at any time at weekends and on Bank Holidays. Currently they are not entitled to concessionary travel on trains at any time.

The arrangements for older people on buses and trams will remain unchanged meaning travel will remain free between 9.30am and 11pm Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and Bank Holidays.

Disabled persons and carers will be able to travel free at all times from a South Yorkshire train station into West Yorkshire.

The budget pressures which led to the changes remain. The enhancements are being introduced in response to the more significant problems, raised through customer feedback, since the changes to reduce concessionary travel were made earlier this year.


The above is the statement from SYPTE. Note that as the meeting isn't until next Monday (19th) nothing has yet changed. Some things are left unclear -
# Disabled card holders can travel from South Yorkshire to West Yorkshire without charge at any time. I imagine this will be with Northern, but the statement doesn't make this clear!
# Half fare for pensioners, is this only within South Yorkshire? Probably, but it will need clarification.

It is a shame that SYPTE didn't get together with DfT to introduce a similar scheme to that in Gloucestershire / Wiltshire where ENCT card acts as a Senior Railcard for local journeys. That scheme gives 34% off, of course! rather than 50%.
 

Deerfold

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I agree with this 100%. If it wasn't for the idiocy of the last Labour government starting concessionary travel we wouldn't have all these problems now. Anything that's free is always abused. When it started there was an ugly scene in Skipton when there were too many passengers for the last X84 to Leeds. If I'd have been the driver those with pre-booked tickets and fare paying passengers would have come first!

The last labour government didn't start concessionary travel - many areas have had cheap or free bus fares for older travellers for years - but it was a complicated mix and what you got depended where you lived.

Of course it wasn't properly budgeted for - and the current government tightening the screws on local authorities hasn't helped.

I take it you would have just abandoned the pensioners then? I'm sure your employer would have loved the headlines from that...
 

34D

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Enhancements to concessionary travel

09/05/2014 12:34:19 PM


The new Sheffield City Region Combined Authority Transport Committee is being invited to consider whether concessionary travel arrangements for disabled and elderly people in South Yorkshire will be enhanced from Sunday 8 June.

The proposals, due to be discussed at the inaugural meeting of the Sheffield City Region Combined Authority Transport Committee on Monday 19 May, are that from 8 June disabled people, and where appropriate their carers, will be entitled to travel free on bus, tram and trains within South Yorkshire from the beginning of service to the end of service each day. Currently they are able to travel by bus and tram from 9.30am to 11pm Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and Bank Holidays.

In addition, from 8 June people who are entitled to an older persons concessionary pass will be able to travel on trains for a half fare (single or day return journeys) between 9.30am and 11pm Monday to Friday and at any time at weekends and on Bank Holidays. Currently they are not entitled to concessionary travel on trains at any time.

The arrangements for older people on buses and trams will remain unchanged meaning travel will remain free between 9.30am and 11pm Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and Bank Holidays.

Disabled persons and carers will be able to travel free at all times from a South Yorkshire train station into West Yorkshire.

The budget pressures which led to the changes remain. The enhancements are being introduced in response to the more significant problems, raised through customer feedback, since the changes to reduce concessionary travel were made earlier this year.


The above is the statement from SYPTE. Note that as the meeting isn't until next Monday (19th) nothing has yet changed. Some things are left unclear -
# Disabled card holders can travel from South Yorkshire to West Yorkshire without charge at any time. I imagine this will be with Northern, but the statement doesn't make this clear!
# Half fare for pensioners, is this only within South Yorkshire? Probably, but it will need clarification.

It is a shame that SYPTE didn't get together with DfT to introduce a similar scheme to that in Gloucestershire / Wiltshire where ENCT card acts as a Senior Railcard for local journeys. That scheme gives 34% off, of course! rather than 50%.

This is ridiculous! Why on earth do disabled (and not elderly) get considered for free train travel?

They seem to be the worst freeloaders (based on my own experiences of bus driving in an area with a lot of ENCTS holders).

Link to back up the above:http://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/kyi_ConcessionaryTravel/
 
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bus man

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There have been various problems due to withdrawal of disabled concessions ;

Those with low wages are paying a large proportion of wages to get to work before the 930 start.

There are problems with some who have mental health issues and the blind in handling money.

With ref to when oap passes started here is Sheffield it was the late 1960's
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The other major problem is that the rail network is very quiet now
 

34D

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Those with low wages are paying a large proportion of wages to get to work before the 930 start.

Welcome to the world of the rest of us. I have zero sympathy here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps they're less likely to be able to use other options such as driving.

I was driving a bus today (in a provincial English town), and myself and a colleague saw one particular disabled passenger 7 times today. If that isn't taking the water then I don't know what is.
 

Deerfold

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I was driving a bus today (in a provincial English town), and myself and a colleague saw one particular disabled passenger 7 times today. If that isn't taking the water then I don't know what is.

When I was a student I often used to organise my various jobs that involved buses onto the same day of the week so I would catch a large number of buses on that day. Without knowing what the person involved needed to do that day it's difficult to comment.
 

34D

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When I was a student I often used to organise my various jobs that involved buses onto the same day of the week so I would catch a large number of buses on that day. Without knowing what the person involved needed to do that day it's difficult to comment.

A return trip to the nearest town for the shops is fine
 

RogerB

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I wonder how many detractors of the concessionary schemes will change their minds when they get old or become disabled.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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And I'm sure they'll increase the state pension to that of a living wage so we wouldn't have to have all these expensive schemes, they could make a bonfire out of red tape, cut crime and the causes of crime and finally put an end to boom and bust, make large corporations pay the appropiate amount of tax, stop wasting money on IT systems that nobody understands, stop giving our money to emerging economies, keep British companies British &c&c&c&c

.....Just like they did when they were in power for all those years under the inspired leadership of "honest as the day that he was born" Tony Blair and the highly respected Gordon "Prudence" Brown....:D
 

455driver

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.....Just like they did when they were in power for all those years under the inspired leadership of "honest as the day that he was born" Tony Blair and the highly respected Gordon "Prudence" Brown....:D

Ha ha ha, I like that a lot! :lol:
 

Dee54321

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34D I really hope one day you're disabled and you can no longer get on your high horse!
 
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