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Penalty fare cost increase

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mono1989

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Evening all.

After I completed my authorised collectors training last week I was advised tha the amount of the PF was to increase to £80 or 4 times the standard fare.

Just wondering when this would come into effect?
 
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swt_passenger

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Evening all.

After I completed my authorised collectors training last week I was advised tha the amount of the PF was to increase to £80 or 4 times the standard fare.

Just wondering when this would come into effect?

No idea about the date, but I think bringing PFs into line with the TfL version has been sort of expected for a few years, and I think is about due. When DfT put this out to consultation around 2009/10 I think it was proposed that £50 (reduced to £25 if paid within three weeks) might become the going rate.

TfL's PF is currently at £80 (but reduced to £40 if paid within 21 days) so is it likely that this prompt payment discount will also be used on National Rail?
 

tony6499

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That could make things interesting, I wonder if the TOC's 'unofficial' penalty fares will rise too ?
 

Hadders

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Four times the Anytime fare would be an extremely punitive level given that penalty fares are given when a passenger has made a mistake.
 

swt_passenger

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Four times the Anytime fare would be an extremely punitive level given that penalty fares are given when a passenger has made a mistake.

That's why I'm asking if it is likely that the headline PF will be reduced if paid promptly, like on TfL (as with most local authority parking penalties as well).

So what we might see is £80 (or 4x) being the scary version, and £40 (or 2x) being the reduced rate.
 

Hadders

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I believe a penalty fare on national rail can only be given if payment is made immediately although it is possible to pay an amount equal to the immediate fare due if the balance is paid within 21 days.
 

tony6499

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Four times the Anytime fare would be an extremely punitive level given that penalty fares are given when a passenger has made a mistake.

I think it is more to punish the low level 'mistakes' , 'forgetting' to pay a £2/3 fare becomes more of a risk at £80 than it does at £20
 

furlong

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I believe a penalty fare on national rail can only be given if payment is made immediately although it is possible to pay an amount equal to the immediate fare due if the balance is paid within 21 days.

I think a passenger may be assumed to be carrying enough money to pay their normal fare for the journey, so this forms (in practice) the minimum payment - authorised collectors may exercise their discretion and not require the minimum payment (defined elsewhere as the "full single fare") immediately.
 
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RPI

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It's going up to £50 or 4x the sds reduced by 50% if paid within 21 days
 

thedbdiboy

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It isn't possible to align the TOC and TfL schemes as the TfL scheme doesn't have a multiplier - it is a straight £80.
 

island

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More material is that each uses completely separate legislation. No TfL group fares are over £20 AFAIK so the multiplier would never be engaged.

Edit: on rereading, this post makes not very much sense. Please ignore.
 
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jon0844

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So, the PF is really only going up to £25, and remains at 2x the standard fare? (I am assuming people would be rather mad to not pay within 21 days).

Is this enough? I don't think so, and thus we will continue to see TOCs wherever possible (i.e. having suitably trained staff) going for the out of court settlement option and ignoring PFs as much as possible.

It really should have been £80 with the 50% reduction, or 4x the fare. With the 'whichever is the greater' rule, that would help stop some people getting charged what might be seen as an acceptable risk for being caught every now and then.
 
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Hadders

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Remember PF's are given for mistakes, where fare evasion or fraud is suspected then it should be reported for prosecution.

4 times the anytime fare seem high to me for a mistake.
 

island

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What could be a bigger concern is whether someone lodging an appeal will forfeit his right to the lower-rate payment if the appeal is turned down.
 

Clip

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Remember PF's are given for mistakes, where fare evasion or fraud is suspected then it should be reported for prosecution.

4 times the anytime fare seem high to me for a mistake.

May be may be not.

There are however a very high number of 'mistakes' that happen across the network every single day, and just look at this forum for how many of them are similar to each other too.

Surely the whole country isnt thick as pig**** and forget to buy a ticket before they travel? Or their railcard? Or buy a child fare?

Ive said many times on here that a much higher PF is much more of a deterrent than 20 quid should people get caught for their 'mistake'.
 
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