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East Coast rewards after February 2015?

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yorkie

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probably no more reward points, a deadline by when all points have to be redeemed.

However I'd still expect & hope to have 6 months to actually book a ticket, but that might be wishful thinking.
 

westv

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probably no more reward points, a deadline by when all points have to be redeemed.

However I'd still expect & hope to have 6 months to actually book a ticket, but that might be wishful thinking.

It'll be sad day when the points go.
 

andrewkeith5

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probably no more reward points, a deadline by when all points have to be redeemed.

However I'd still expect & hope to have 6 months to actually book a ticket, but that might be wishful thinking.

Not just with the reward points (it will be really quite sad if they go, they're surprisingly good at keeping my custom at least!) but also 'gift vouchers' - if the EC booking engine is closed I presume any outstanding balances will be lost unless they are refunded automatically.
 

Hadders

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Isn't East Coast being privatised in a different way, through a share sale rather than via the normal franchising method.

If this is the case than there is a possibility that things may remain as they are, at least in the short term.
 

Hadders

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It's in the invitation to tender, section 8.1

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intercity-east-coast-icec-franchise-2013-prospectus

East Coast passenger services are currently run under a services agreement between ECML, DOR and the Secretary of State for Transport.
This agreement was put in place to fulfil the Secretary of State’s obligation under section 30 of the Railways Act 1993 to ensure the provision of passenger services where a Franchise Agreement has been terminated and no new Franchise Agreement has been entered into.

Ordinarily when a franchise is awarded, the winning bidder will have formed a company which will operate the franchise and franchise assets (i.e. certain assets needed to run the passenger services) will be transferred to this new franchisee from the existing franchisee.

Such a transfer takes place in accordance with section 12 of the Railways Act 2005 which gives the Secretary of State the power to make a scheme for the transfer of franchise assets from a franchisee to a successor franchisee or to a company owned by the Secretary of State or to specified other persons. This transfer scheme provision is reflected in standard Franchise Agreement provisions which set out the scope of the transfer scheme and oblige the franchisee to transfer certain property to a successor operator at the end of the franchise. This provision provides a power to override certain third party rights to transfer property, rights and liabilities from an existing franchisee to ensure that franchise assets are available to a new operator.

Section 12 is only available where a franchise is in place. The services agreement currently in place is not a Franchise Agreement and so cannot use this mechanism. We will therefore use a share sale as the mechanism to ensure that the assets held by ECML remain available to be used for the provision of East Coast passenger services once a new franchise has been awarded. The share sale will ensure that all assets and liabilities are transferred to the new private sector owner. ECML will continue to run the services and will be a party to a new Franchise Agreement with the Secretary of State.

The share sale has a number of advantages over the usual transfer scheme. It removes the need for protracted mobilisation activities such as the transfer of employees and provides a straightforward mechanism for valuing the assets which will be acquired. It provides continuity and enables the existing operator to continue to run the passenger services rather than having a new operator at the beginning of the franchise.
 

OLJR

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East Coast will lose their franchise in February 2015. When the operations are handed over to another TOC how likely do members think that:

i) Rewards points will be maintained by the new TOC and may be redeemed as they are at present

ii) Rewards points will be maintained by the new TOC but with different T&C

iii) Rewards points will not be maintained by the new TOC but up until the East Coast franchise expires we will be able to redeem for services operated by the new TOC and the new TOC will honour these tickets

iv) Rewards points will not be maintained by the new TOC and redemptions for March 2015 and onwards will not be honoured

v) Something else will happen.
 

Essexman

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I have about 5000 to redeem and it will indeed be a shame if the excellent scheme is scrapped. I would expect that a new operator will want to put their own mark on the scheme or scrap it all together but I'd hope they allowed a reasonable time (a year?) to use up the points.
 
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I wonder how many more tickets for travel on other TOCS have been purchased via the EC website since the rewards scheme started? Given EC get 9% of this (I think this is correct), the answer will go a long way to the incoming TOC deciding whether to keep the scheme or not.
 

andrewkeith5

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I wonder how many more tickets for travel on other TOCS have been purchased via the EC website since the rewards scheme started? Given EC get 9% of this (I think this is correct), the answer will go a long way to the incoming TOC deciding whether to keep the scheme or not.

I've certainly bought a lot. Any ticket over £22 which I have no chance of wanting a refund for (which is a high proportion of them) I buy through EC, any under £22 I buy from FGW for nectar points and if there's a chance I might need a refund I buy from Southern.

I go where I'm rewarded ;)
 

yorkie

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I wonder how many more tickets for travel on other TOCS have been purchased via the EC website since the rewards scheme started? Given EC get 9% of this (I think this is correct), the answer will go a long way to the incoming TOC deciding whether to keep the scheme or not.
I fear the new TOC will assume that all the customers will stay loyal to them and will take their custom for granted, abolish the Rewards scheme and then be surprised (I won't be) when people abandon them and instead book with Southern for the Money Back Guarantee (a policy which EC apparently stubbornly refuse to even consider, according to EC Web Support).

There would be no point in booking anything other than EC advances with EC if the Rewards scheme didn't exist, because of the potentially huge costs of rectifying mistakes (or implementing a change of travel plans) by having the dreaded £10 admin fee applied each time. It's a risk people are prepared to take for the current Rewards.

I know that EC management will be reading this, so hopefully they can provide suitable feedback to the bosses in charge at whatever awful owning group wins the franchise by providing the cheapest worst quality bid (in line with anti-passenger DfT policies).
 

Tetchytyke

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It'll be interesting. The Rewards scheme in it's current form was created by DOR, but the scheme has existed in one form or another since GNER days.

I would be surprised if it remains in its current form, but most TOCs seem to understand the need to promote their websites with incentives. Most seem to use Nectar points, which are better than a kick in the face but only just.
 

telstarbox

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I've got a reply on Twitter:

Me: @eastcoastuk Is there a deadline for using up East Coast Rewards points before the franchise transfer?
EC: @_charlie123 Hi Gerry. The Rewards Scheme is expected to transfer to the new owner. More details to come at a later point.
 

Hadders

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There's also the (remote I admit) possibility that the Rewards scheme could be extended to Virgin West Coast and/or East Midlands Trains/South West Trains.
 

bb21

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I have split the more general discussion on the Nectar scheme into a separate thread.
 

Kite159

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I would put 10p on the reward scheme continuing with a couple minor changes, the reward of free tickets will be axed, so Stagecoach/Virgin can say they have kept the popular rewards scheme going.

So buy tickets for the chance to exchange your points for a range of rewards, such as magazine subscriptions, maybe keeping the 1st class lounge access passes
 
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Starmill

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As a frequent traveller on EC I'm interested to see how Virgin do. I'm not impressed by the scapping of the rewards scheme. It won't drive me off EC, but I may well look at what other ticket sellers offer.

I won't bother with EC's website if all it offers is nectar points. The value of a nectar point is very, very low given how you can redeem them.

For any walk-up ticket, booking on Southern is the way to go, as it offers a full refund if you don't use the tickets (i.e. no admin fee). For an Advance, a special deal is often offered, e.g. 50% off with a 16-25 Railcard on TPE, £1 off on EMT, NUS Extra discount on XC and so on. If none of these apply, any site that happens to be listed for cashback - e.g. EMT are currently offering 2.1% on all journeys, rising to 3.67% if you are making a journey with them.
 

ModernRailways

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I fear the new TOC will assume that all the customers will stay loyal to them and will take their custom for granted, abolish the Rewards scheme and then be surprised (I won't be) when people abandon them and instead book with Southern for the Money Back Guarantee (a policy which EC apparently stubbornly refuse to even consider, according to EC Web Support).

I do this already for any journeys where I wouldn't earn reward points, and so abolishing it will just mean moving to the Southern (or maybe South Eastern) site to purchase my tickets.

East Coast have really done huge advertising for buying tickets from them on the basis of reward points, and all that, as you say, can be easily undone if there is no benefit any more.
 

greatkingrat

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The question is how much money are they actually making from just selling tickets? It is all very well getting lots of customers to use your site, but if the cost of the Rewards cancels out the commission earned, then it is not worth the bother from their point of view.
 

Tetchytyke

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The question is how much money are they actually making from just selling tickets? It is all very well getting lots of customers to use your site, but if the cost of the Rewards cancels out the commission earned, then it is not worth the bother from their point of view.

It depends what value you put on the free tickets. Each "free" first class ticket requires a spend of about £450, and I'd imagine most people have spent all £450 of that on East Coast train services. I doubt the cost to East Coast of that "free" ticket is £45.
 
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It depends what value you put on the free tickets. Each "free" first class ticket requires a spend of about £450, and I'd imagine most people have spent all £450 of that on East Coast train services.

You collect points when you buy East Coast specific trains tickets (for instance Leeds to London or Peterborough to Newcastle). You also get points when you spend £22 or more on any other tickets. All you have to do is make sure your spend is £22 or over in one visit to the East Coast web site. Where possible, it pays to use the East Coast web site, when you are going to spend £22 or more on several sets of tickets for other operators. Just buy them all in one go.

. I doubt the cost to East Coast of that "free" ticket is £45.

The marginal cost to East Coast is some drink and food. Willing to guess that's less £10 per first class rewards passenger. And you can only redeem your points on services of East Coast's choosing.

Compare that to the Nectar scheme currently offered by First. East Coast Rewards is better.
 

mad_rich

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I've got a reply on Twitter:

Me: @eastcoastuk Is there a deadline for using up East Coast Rewards points before the franchise transfer?
EC: @_charlie123 Hi Gerry. The Rewards Scheme is expected to transfer to the new owner. More details to come at a later point.

Hmm. I hope that's true.

I'm not sure I'd pay any heed to East Coast on this. It's not them that decides, surely, it's Stagecoach. (Even if it ends up being the same person manning the Twitter account in 6 months time!)

Either way, I will look to use, rather than earn points over the next few months.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The marginal cost to East Coast is some drink and food. Willing to guess that's less £10 per first class rewards passenger. And you can only redeem your points on services of East Coast's choosing.

Compare that to the Nectar scheme currently offered by First. East Coast Rewards is better.

Yep, the scheme is much like the frequent flyer schemes of old. There is very little cost to EC when you redeem, since they're in charge of the redemption. They can be pretty damn sure they're only giving away seats that would be unsold.

Nectar is a strictly revenue based scheme, and as such not much in the way of 'gaming' you can do to increase your value.
 

ainsworth74

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The way I took it was that it will transfer but only in that it won't close down at the stroke of midnight when the franchise starts up. I didn't take it to mean that VTEC will keep it for the long haul.
 

Deerfold

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The way I took it was that it will transfer but only in that it won't close down at the stroke of midnight when the franchise starts up. I didn't take it to mean that VTEC will keep it for the long haul.

That was how I read it - they'll presumably give some notice before withdrawing the scheme - that's what NXEC did with GNER's scheme.
 

Starmill

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Alternatively, 'transfer' might mean them turning your EC points into Nectar points. Horror of horrors!
 

TRAINLINCS

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The conundrum for most of us now with Rewards free tickets to use is whether to travel before 1st March or hang on as I had planned for the spring or summer months. Will there be an overlap to enable the use of free tickets after 1st March? Will there be an overlap of the East Coast 1st class complimentary food offer or will the new company provide their offer, if any, from 1st March.
 

55z

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Virgin East Coast are also to have a rewards scheme but it is early days to say what it is and whether the existing scheme will be honoured or you will have to redeem it
We wait and see. Best thing is if have 2000 points is to redeem some if not all before 28th February 2015
 
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