PermitToTravel
Established Member
That would waste a lot of paper for a fairly rare edge case.
Aren't RPIs there to check up on drivers too?
That would waste a lot of paper for a fairly rare edge case.
Thing is, I don't think Herts County Council have any inspectors that go on buses to check passengers, let alone drivers.
The system probably wouldn't really work in practice though, as the passenger would need to know to request a ticket.
If you use someone else's CPC you risk Police being called!
If you use someone else's CPC you risk Police being called!
As I see it, a ticket is a receipt for payment of a fare. If you pay by Oyster or contactless, you don't get a ticket, and don't need to show a ticket. Your fare is considered paid by virtue of you having touched in.
As I see it, a ticket is a receipt for payment of a fare. If you pay by Oyster or contactless, you don't get a ticket, and don't need to show a ticket. Your fare is considered paid by virtue of you having touched in.
Is it not slightly worrying that in handing over your bank card, you are allowing a stranger to view your card number, expiry date, signature and CVV code (effectively the PIN number for online transactions) and allowing that stranger to tap the card against a device whose legitimacy you cannot verify? I would not be prepared to hand over my bank card to such a stranger.
As I see it, a ticket is a receipt for payment of a fare. If you pay by Oyster or contactless, you don't get a ticket, and don't need to show a ticket. Your fare is considered paid by virtue of you having touched in.
Well written and clarified.I speak only for the contactless revenue inspection devices (RIDs) used by certain TOCs in South London, but, in terms of contactless cards (not Oyster/ITSO):
- Data is encrypted immediately upon receipt by the device, and transferred to banks for their own back office checks within a very short time period
- Devices are able to be locked and secured remotely
- The only information likely to be received by a user is whether or not the card is authorised for travel - you should not even find out whether minimum required funds are available
- Devices have been tried and tested elsewhere by third parties
- You would be required to allow your contactless card to be inspected if you have used it to form a contract under the NRCoC for travel on any given National Rail operator's trains
You can take down details (I would recommend from an ID card) of the person inspecting the card. Text BTP on 61016 if you feel they are not genuine. Contactless cards should be read by tapping them (on the RIDs which I am familiar with).
I have actively scrutinised the front-line use of the prevailing system in use, and the risk to any individual would seem pretty small in all day-to-day circumstances. Obviously I cannot go into all specifics, and I can't claim there is zero risk, because that would be foolish. Suffice to say that if I used contactless payment for travel (I don't - and have other reasons than security for this) I would not feel at any significant financial risk whatsoever as a result of any inspections.
Perhaps he didn't have a RID?This morning, for the first time when using my contactless card on a train (Southern from East Croydon to London Bridge for the record), I encountered a ticket inspector. "Tickets please......tickets please...."....I held out my bank card and he just walked straight past me and continued down the carriage, making no attempt to scan my card.
Exactly.IIRC the posters on buses say you may be liable to a penalty fare or prosecution if you fail to show on demand a valid ticket, pass or other authority to travel. A validated Oyster or CPC would, in my view, fall under the definition of 'other authority to travel'. Someone else pays your fare, gets off, RPI gets on, !BOOM! Penalty fare for failing to show a ticket, pass or other travel authority is how TFL would probably look at it, no matter that the fare had actually been paid.
If you don't want someone to view your card details, then present the card in an opaque wallet. I cannot verify the legitimacy of any card machine in any store; yet I still insert my card when I wish to pay for goods/services in such stores. And unlike for having my card checked by transport staff, for Chip & Pin transactions I have no choice but to take the card out of the wallet.Is it not slightly worrying that in handing over your bank card, you are allowing a stranger to view your card number, expiry date, signature and CVV code (effectively the PIN number for online transactions) and allowing that stranger to tap the card against a device whose legitimacy you cannot verify? I would not be prepared to hand over my bank card to such a stranger.
This morning, for the first time when using my contactless card on a train (Southern from East Croydon to London Bridge for the record), I encountered a ticket inspector. "Tickets please......tickets please...."....I held out my bank card and he just walked straight past me and continued down the carriage, making no attempt to scan my card.
Perhaps he didn't have a RID?
He definitely had a reader of some description but I didn't see him scanning any cards with it.
Apart from the training, can they fix any of the other problems?Some of the readers need regular battery changes and, due to needing internet connectivity quite frequently, may not work in areas of frequent tunnels. They are also prone to locking themselves out of service if incorrect login details are presented. The other issue is that not all relevant onboard staff across London and the South East have had full training yet. So any of those reasons could have contributed to that!