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Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

jon0844

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There don't seem to be many obvious pedestrian routes to the hotels, presumably to get you using the expensive taxis.
 
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158747

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Bottom line and it is still under investigation by Southern, there seems to be a total ban on photography at Gatwick on the platforms as it is considered a security risk as the aircraft flight paths are directly over the railway boundary and even photos of trains are limited to being restricted - note the ban "has" been put in place by airport management according to railway staff.
Sounds like a case of someone making the rules up as they go along, how can photographing aircraft from the station platform be a security risk when it is ok to photograph them at the airport?
 

TheJRB

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Was at Gatwick earlier as I wanted to try some photos of the aircraft landing as the flight path is directly over the railway boundary and also grab a quick pic of my train I traveled in on - BIG MISTAKE, got reported for being "suspicious" this is despite fact I was not using flash, kept well back from platform edge and didn't interfere with staff working not to mention it was painfully obviously I was more interested in the aircraft then the trains.

Bottom line and it is still under investigation by Southern, there seems to be a total ban on photography at Gatwick on the platforms as it is considered a security risk as the aircraft flight paths are directly over the railway boundary and even photos of trains are limited to being restricted - note the ban "has" been put in place by airport management according to railway staff.
I was once told off for taking photos at Orpington because "the Olympic rules" were still in place in November 2012 and that it's because it's a big station! So take it with a pinch of salt is my advice until you hear something official.

However if it is true, that would be quite a shame. I like going to Gatwick to photograph the trains and planes. Perhaps Clapham Junction will have to do for planes on final approach into Heathrow instead!
 

GatwickDepress

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At Bedford in June, a member of staff made it clear I was allowed to take pictures as long as infrastructure wasn't in shot...
 

455driver

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The few times when I have been confronted with somebody spouting 'elf & saifty' I ask them which rule I am breaking and can they show it too me please, if they persist I then pull a bloomin great book out of my bag (with a very rough "Health and safety at Work 1998, undated 2012" front cover on it and go to hand it to them, invariably they leg it within seconds! :lol:
 

Aictos

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Sounds like a case of someone making the rules up as they go along, how can photographing aircraft from the station platform be a security risk when it is ok to photograph them at the airport?

I was told this first by a Gatwick Express liviered Dispatcher then their manager confirmed it BUT I am still waiting on the airport to confirm if their "ban" actually exists or not - sorely tempted to head to airport this week and ask to speak to a senior manager to explain how it's a security risk when like you have said it's fine to take photos at the airport itself.

What I don't understand and what I will use to prove my point is the same distance I was at Gatwick is the same distance from the viewing area that Heathrow have provided and also my second point I will bring up is the fact that I can stand at Hatton Cross at the bus stops and photo the aircraft coming in to land and if it's such a security risk at the airport at Gatwick then surely as Heathrow is a far bigger target then Gatwick then Heathrow would have placed a ban on such photography.

The manager not sure what their actual job role was went on to say because the airport has a ban in place and because the concourse goes over the platforms, the platforms are covered by same ban.

Also said because of the increased security risk you may not be able to photo trains there too which is in direct confliction with Southern's policy >

Photography at Southern stations

As a general rule members of the public are free to take photos of our trains and the stations we manage and are welcome to do so. If any of our employees are likely to feature in your pictures we'd appreciate you asking for their permission whenever possible.

We ask that photographers only go onto areas that are open to the general public and don't cause an obstruction to passengers or staff. And ideally we ask that photographers taking more than just a few 'snapshots' seek permission from us prior to taking photos, however we realise this is not always possible in practice.

We must also stress that flash photography must not to be used as this can be a distraction for train drivers.

Our local station staff occasionally may ask photographers not to take pictures and move to another part of the station or leave the station. We'll always explain why this is necessary. And if this does happen please understand that our staff have many things to consider including safety and security of all passengers and so will use their judgement in this regard.

Permission should be sought for any photographs taken of our trains and property for publication purposes. Enthusiast photographers can take photographs at stations for private purposes, provided they are not sold except to enthusiast magazines.

Finally along with all operators Southern supports the Guidelines for Rail Enthusiasts which help remind enthusiasts of their responsibilities when visiting stations.


Quite clearly says I am perfectly allowed to take photos of 442s for example, still once I hear from the airport I will of course update all here but my view is it's a load of tosh.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Also said because of the increased security risk you may not be able to photo trains there too which is in direct confliction with Southern's policy >

Photography at Southern stations

As a general rule members of the public are free to take photos of our trains and the stations we manage and are welcome to do so. If any of our employees are likely to feature in your pictures we'd appreciate you asking for their permission whenever possible.


Gatwick is a Network Rail managed station now isn't it? Not a Southern one?
 

455driver

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I notice it says-

As a general rule members of the public are free to take photos of our trains and the stations we manage and are welcome to do so. If any of our employees are likely to feature in your pictures we'd appreciate you asking for their permission whenever possible.

It doesnt say you are permitted to take pictures of the planes!
 

Aictos

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I notice it says-



It doesnt say you are permitted to take pictures of the planes!

Smart Alec ;) I liked Gatwick as I could get decent photos of the Class 442 fleet plus get some mileage in at same time, the fact I could also get photos of the aircraft is a bonus :D

My point however is it is a Southern managed station yet was told by some manager that I couldn't take photos of the trains as that too was considered a security risk because of the "ban" in place by the airport.
 
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trentside

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I took several pictures inside the North Terminal at Gatwick the other day and had no problems at all - this included airside pictures from the terminal building. Sounds like the issue is with the station staff getting their knickers in a twist...
 

Aictos

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I took several pictures inside the North Terminal at Gatwick the other day and had no problems at all - this included airside pictures from the terminal building. Sounds like the issue is with the station staff getting their knickers in a twist...

In that case, a visit to airport management seems to be in order....
 

jon0844

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Will the airport do anything? I say this as threads on here suggest the airport doesn't get too involved with other issues relating to the railway station.
 

Aictos

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Seems Southern are at fault here as it is a training issue with their staff there misunderstanding the guidelines :roll:

Official reply from the Airport confirms NO such ban is in place and you ARE welcome to photo trains or aircraft from the platforms provided you first advise the Duty Manager or the Duty Customer Experience Manager.

It also says photography is NOT allowed within the airport terminals without express permission of Gatwick Airport Limited for which they issue a media pass and a escort from the press team.

Also mentions the popular Aviation Enthusiast ID scheme too.

As result have kindly suggested to Southern via Twitter that they ensure their staff are briefed accordly ;)
 

GatwickDepress

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Also mentions the popular Aviation Enthusiast ID scheme too.
Perhaps there should be a Railway Enthusiast ID scheme in co-operation with the British Transport Police... might help alleviate those security concerns some very civic-minded staff seem to have.
 

AM9

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Seems Southern are at fault here as it is a training issue with their staff there misunderstanding the guidelines :roll:

Official reply from the Airport confirms NO such ban is in place and you ARE welcome to photo trains or aircraft from the platforms provided you first advise the Duty Manager or the Duty Customer Experience Manager.

It also says photography is NOT allowed within the airport terminals without express permission of Gatwick Airport Limited for which they issue a media pass and a escort from the press team.

Also mentions the popular Aviation Enthusiast ID scheme too.

As result have kindly suggested to Southern via Twitter that they ensure their staff are briefed accordly ;)

I often wonder if these officials know why they can ask/demand that photography/video be stopped, whether they misguidedly think that they should do it or whether they just feel the uniform gives their ego some sort of authority to boss the public around.
 

jon0844

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Perhaps there should be a Railway Enthusiast ID scheme in co-operation with the British Transport Police... might help alleviate those security concerns some very civic-minded staff seem to have.

I have a press card that is registered with the police. My details can be checked by the cops and I have a password for further verification. The card also contains a chip with encrypted data (not sure what it contains, but if like a passport then presumably it has my photo and details).

But...

I often wonder if these officials know why they can ask/demand that photography/video be stopped, whether they misguidedly think that they should do it or whether they just feel the uniform gives their ego some sort of authority to boss the public around.

...that's the problem ultimately. Even if I produce a press pass to a police officer, it doesn't (or hasn't) stopped some from still coming up with nonsense about the legality of taking photos in some places. Some will still try and make your life difficult, especially if they're proved wrong after doing some checks. Sometimes you'll get 'let off this time' when clearly you'll be let off EVERY time.

Some people do like to show off their power. That includes rail staff, the police, bouncers and all sorts of other people. The worst, in my experience, at community support officers. They have little understanding of the law, but still think they do and therefore make things up because they assume they can bluff their way through the job.

Naturally, when any of these people encounter someone that doesn't just say 'sorry, sir' and takes things further, they end up looking very stupid and it must really hurt their ego too. After all, they wanted to abuse their power so it obviously meant a lot to them.
 

AM9

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...The worst, in my experience, at community support officers. They have little understanding of the law, but still think they do and therefore make things up because they assume they can bluff their way through the job.

Naturally, when any of these people encounter someone that doesn't just say 'sorry, sir' and takes things further, they end up looking very stupid and it must really hurt their ego too. After all, they wanted to abuse their power so it obviously meant a lot to them.

Ah, the 'plastic police'. What everybody should know is that PCSOs do not have the power of arrest, above that of a citizen, so if you know that you are in the right and they just won't climb down, you can just walk away. They can, of course call a real PC, which should be encouraged, because if they do it too often, they will be taken aside and 'seriously educated'.
 

ralphchadkirk

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They can detain you though for up to a certain amount of time.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
 

jon0844

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Ah, the 'plastic police'. What everybody should know is that PCSOs do not have the power of arrest, above that of a citizen, so if you know that you are in the right and they just won't climb down, you can just walk away. They can, of course call a real PC, which should be encouraged, because if they do it too often, they will be taken aside and 'seriously educated'.

That's exactly what happened with me. A PCSO was having a go at me, and eventually a 'real' police officer came over to see what was going on, and initially (as you might expect) assumed the PCSO was being harassed - but it didn't take long for the PCSO to be told (via a whisper in the ear) to go off and do something else, and I was then left alone.

But sadly I've had bother from other police officers, so there was always the chance that it could have still resulted in me getting hassle. However, for some reason, as soon as a press card is presented they seem to suddenly change their approach.

In other words, they're now worried things could get taken further and they've lost their ability to bully me and send me on my way, or fearing the possibility of arrest. Arresting a journalist taking photos in a public place is not going to go well for the officer concerned, as every force has made it quite clear that it's acceptable (and legal). Obviously for everyone, but these people always assume most people don't know their rights.

This clarification has unfortunately only come about after a number of people have been arrested and even had photos and video deleted without a court order, and my union having had to work incredibly hard to get police forces to 'educate' their officers. And I am sure the problem still exists if you ever tried to take a photo of any incident involving the police, especially where a photo or video might get an officer in trouble.
 
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alexdodds

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Well for the first time since May 2009 I got jobsworthed at a station with one of my friends and it was at Birmingham Snow Hill Tuesday last week. My fault at first I forgot to ask supervisor. I was videoing shots at waistline level which caused concern for a few staff. I only did this cos it was raining. So one person who I knew before hand was gonna jobsworth me because of the way he looked at me then another 2 came along and read the riot act out to me then the supervisor came along and he was much better he did remind me to let him know next time and he was happy for us to carry on I did say sorry as well. Well I suppose we all must have a jobsworth one day
 

IamTrainsYT

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the only issue i've had is at piccadilly. had both Network Rail and BTP staff questioning me and then asking me to leave

this has happened on several occasions
 

Peter Mugridge

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the only issue i've had is at piccadilly. had both Network Rail and BTP staff questioning me and then asking me to leave

this has happened on several occasions

When was this? I did photos there last month in full view of staff and with no issues.
 

alexdodds

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November last year I got jobsworthed at Paris Gare l'est. Was on the station about 10 minutes and got told in French no filming. Was tricky trying to explain to them using Google translate.
 

DanNCL

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Had an issue at St James on the Tyne & Wear Metro today. Was told no photography "because of the current security threat level". I know Nexus have been incredibly difficult over photogprahy in the past but in the last couple of years had become considerably more relaxed. To give them a little bit of credit, at least the staff were polite about it, which certainly never was the case pre 2020 with Nexus.
 

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