East Coast franchise discussion (Previously: Rumour VT/Stagecoach to win)

[Bletchleyite]

The restaurant car on EC was good but it was also horrifically expensive. Apart from on a couple of early evening trains out of London take-up was low. It's the same with Pullman Dining on FGW, you're looking at sixty quid a head minimum for a meal.

It's interesting that the DB-style Bistrowagen concept was never tried. Serve basic but decent quality foodservice type (i.e. microwaved or toaster) stuff on proper plates etc. Might even bring more custom. Meanwhile incorporating a standing bar area a la ICE would have quite a number of people standing voluntarily and enjoying it, rather than annoyed crammed into the vestibule.

The Travelling Chef is I suppose similar, and I guess fGW have said it wasn't successful, but it isn't *quite* the same. In particular there's no sit-down eating area - it's take away only.

Neil

 

[Tetchytyke]

GNER/NXEC did at-seat dining in First Class. It was nice enough but it was pretty pricey too, you were looking at over a tenner for a burger and potato wedges. The burger and chips were alright I suppose, but at a tenner they needed to be.

I suppose the problem with a sit-down cafe area is that people will stay there for the whole journey if they don't have a reservation. And a standing cafe area just takes up room that could be used for seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose the problem with a sit-down cafe area is that people will stay there for the whole journey if they don't have a reservation. And a standing cafe area just takes up room that could be used for seats.

Anecdotal evidence from people who used to use the buffet areas on Southern EMUs is that in the latter case people will stand in a standing bar area at a far higher density than they will sit in a seating area - so this objection isn't really a valid one.

Neil

 

[B&W]

Anecdotal evidence from people who used to use the buffet areas on Southern EMUs is that in the latter case people will stand in a standing bar area at a far higher density than they will sit in a seating area - so this objection isn't really a valid one.

Neil

from Horsham the standing areas of the BIGs were crammed in the morning and passing through was nigh on impossible, anybody trying to do so ran the gauntlet of caustic comment from regulars. These trains were very popular, even from Barnham/Arundel you sometimes did not get your Buttered Toast and Coffee till approaching Horsham as there were quite a few folks who walked through after Barnham. Still you passed the time of day with Patrick Moore, Colin Cowdrey etc.

Again in the Evening the Buffet would be rammed from 10mins before departure till after after Dorking. I used wait to get my second G&T after Horsham when it calmed down and I would then walk through the 12 coach train to sit in appropriate part of the train for my stations exit.

A long gone era when trains were comfortable and worth travelling by, not many times you were over 10mins late.

Brian

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Anecdotal evidence from people who used to use the buffet areas on Southern EMUs is that in the latter case people will stand in a standing bar area at a far higher density than they will sit in a seating area - so this objection isn't really a valid one.

Neil

The famous (or infamous) "W" club from Waterloo - a drink taken at Wimbledon , Weybridge, West Byfleet , Woking etc. towards Southampton.....

Have I missed anywhere ...?

 

[3141]

The famous (or infamous) "W" club from Waterloo - a drink taken at Wimbledon , Weybridge, West Byfleet , Woking etc. towards Southampton.....

Have I missed anywhere ...?

Winchfield, Worting Junction, Winchester.

 

[Iskra]

But aren't Waitrose and M&S stores at stations run by SSP and more expensive than the ordinary stores? I'm pretty sure prices are higher, if not on all things on a lot of things?

In other words, you'd still be better off venturing outside - but the hope (and likely reality) is that most people won't do that.

Yes, but only slightly and the prices are still 'reasonable'- at M&S at least (I haven't come across many Waitrose's near stations up North- saw one tonight for the first time actually on the Tyne Valley line.)

I used to work for M&S on a motorway and the prices were half the price of anywhere else on site, so I think they're quite generous with their pricing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The famous (or infamous) "W" club from Waterloo - a drink taken at Wimbledon , Weybridge, West Byfleet , Woking etc. towards Southampton.....

Have I missed anywhere ...?

Walton...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but only slightly and the prices are still 'reasonable'- at M&S at least (I haven't come across many Waitrose's near stations up North- saw one tonight for the first time actually on the Tyne Valley line.)

There are fewer Waitroses up north generally, particularly in Booths territory. This is no coincidence - Edwin Booth is said to get on with the John Lewis Partnership very well (they even share a lot of the supply chain), so there is unlikely to be head to head competition between the two.

FWIW I think Booths is better than Waitrose anyway

Neil

 

[Chrism20]

FWIW I think Booths is better than Waitrose anyway

Neil

Definitely! They do a mean roast beef barm at the hot food counter and they have one of the most interesting arrays of cakes I've seen on the high street in years.

 

[Iskra]

There are fewer Waitroses up north generally, particularly in Booths territory. This is no coincidence - Edwin Booth is said to get on with the John Lewis Partnership very well (they even share a lot of the supply chain), so there is unlikely to be head to head competition between the two.

FWIW I think Booths is better than Waitrose anyway

Neil

Ah, I wondered why Booths hadn't spread further- I thought they were missing a trick and feared Waitrose would get into a lot of locations first.

Booths is much better than Waitrose, it's one of the few things I miss about living in the North West.

 

[Suraggu]

Today was the pencilled date for the announcement of the winner of the ICEC franchise, and the announcement has not happened, as I broke a week or so ago.

Apparently DfT still talking to all 3 bidders....

 

[westv]

Maybe they'll decide to keep it as it is and EC will do quadruple points for 6 months in celebration.

 

[snail]

Definitely! They do a mean roast beef barm at the hot food counter and they have one of the most interesting arrays of cakes I've seen on the high street in years.

And the best selection of beer of any supermarket chain. .

Interestingly (and very off topic) I think the most northerly Waitrose in the NW is in Preston, home of Booths.

 

[Chrism20]

And the best selection of beer of any supermarket chain. .

Interestingly (and very off topic) I think the most northerly Waitrose in the NW is in Preston, home of Booths.

Yup the next one North on the west coast will be the one at Gretna Services on the M74 I think which is of course SW Scotland.

 

[adrock1976]

And the best selection of beer of any supermarket chain. .

Interestingly (and very off topic) I think the most northerly Waitrose in the NW is in Preston, home of Booths.

Yup the next one North on the west coast will be the one at Gretna Services on the M74 I think which is of course SW Scotland.

There is a Waitrose further north than Gretna. There is a Waitrose supermarket at the top end of Byres Road in Glasgow, just across from the former Botanic Gardens station on the Glasgow Central Railway.

In peace

Adam

 

[pemma]

Ah, I wondered why Booths hadn't spread further- I thought they were missing a trick and feared Waitrose would get into a lot of locations first.

Booths is much better than Waitrose, it's one of the few things I miss about living in the North West.

Many of Booths' suppliers are North West based, so in the North West they have a selling point over Waitrose (higher proportion of local produce) but to expand further they need to find new suppliers to retain that selling point.

 

[ainsworth74]

Am I the only one sat her wondering what Waitrose and Booths has to do with the East Coast franchise...

 

[pemma]

There are fewer Waitroses up north generally, particularly in Booths territory. This is no coincidence - Edwin Booth is said to get on with the John Lewis Partnership very well (they even share a lot of the supply chain), so there is unlikely to be head to head competition between the two.

FWIW I think Booths is better than Waitrose anyway

Waitrose have expanded in the Booths territory over recent years by a combination of:
* Acquiring sites that were not previously supermarkets
* Buying some ex-Safeway stores off Morrisons
* Buying some ex-KwikSave (Somerfield) stores off Co-op
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Am I the only one sat her wondering what Waitrose and Booths has to do with the East Coast franchise...

Waitrose do complimentary take away coffees which can be taken on an East Coast service, Booths do complimentary coffees but they need to be consumed in their cafes

 

[Ground Frame]

Am I the only one sat her wondering what Waitrose and Booths has to do with the East Coast franchise...

Nope!

 

[GNER 373]

Am I the only one sat her wondering what Waitrose and Booths has to do with the East Coast franchise...

Definitely not. Unless Boots or Waitrose are the new EC franchise bidders

 

[ainsworth74]

In that case, as much as I appreciate jcollins robust defence of this diversion )), can I suggest we get back on topic and leave Waitrose and Booths to another thread?

Many thanks

 

[pemma]

Definitely not. Unless Boots or Waitrose are the new EC franchise bidders

Now you've brought another retailer in to the thread!

Not sure if it's been mentioned that Labour have confirmed the East Coast franchise will not be returned to state ownership if it win's the next election but will allow public sector companies to bid to run rail franchises when they come up for renewal, with Tim O'Toole from First Group being unhappy: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/07/firstgroup-labour-urge-to-control-transport

 

[Suraggu]

Still no indication of an announcement, but the date of 17/11/14 has firmly gone out of the window.

 

[Geezertronic]

Still no indication of an announcement, but the date of 17/11/14 has firmly gone out of the window.

What would cause a delay though? Or was the 17th a tentative date anyway?

 

[PG]

What would cause a delay though? Or was the 17th a tentative date anyway?

DaFT getting their sums wrong?... again

 

[aylesbury]

A thought on the livery for the new EC franchise why not paint the class 800,s in LNER apple green this would reflect the history of the route.Also the stations could use the colour on seats etc providing a welcome to passengers .I would not expect staff to wear green uniforms maybe shirts and ties but black jackets and trousers would look smart.But probably this wont happen and we will have another bland livery foist upon us any views on the idea?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What would cause a delay though? Or was the 17th a tentative date anyway?

Plenty of reasons.
Contracts have to be agreed and signed by the winner, before DfT makes an announcement.
There will be several billion at stake, and undoubtedly the Treasury will be involved.
They can't afford to mess this one up.

 

[Robertj21a]

Plenty of reasons.
Contracts have to be agreed and signed by the winner, before DfT makes an announcement.
There will be several billion at stake, and undoubtedly the Treasury will be involved.
They can't afford to mess this one up.

Well if they *do* mess this one up (and it doesn't go to Stagecoach/Virgin) you can be pretty certain that Messrs Souter/Branson will be quick to, again, highlight where the error lies !!

 

[pemma]

Well if they *do* mess this one up (and it doesn't go to Stagecoach/Virgin) you can be pretty certain that Messrs Souter/Branson will be quick to, again, highlight where the error lies !!

But what if they get it wrong by awarding it to Stagecoach/Virgin?