BZ ticket on Gatwick Express

[talldave]

If I buy an Off Peak London Victoria - Z1-6 Travelcard and a Littlehaven to BZ6 Off Peak return , can I change at Gatwick onto the Gatwick Express on my way into London - since both tickets are Any Permitted and the BZ ticket negates the need to stop at a station as part of the "split" ?

[I've deliberately chosen Victoria as the Origin of the Travelcard to avoid the controversy that might arise if I used, for example, East Croydon]

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If it is routed 'Any Permitted' you should have no problem.

 

[button_boxer]

[I've deliberately chosen Victoria as the Origin of the Travelcard to avoid the controversy that might arise if I used, for example, East Croydon]

Not that that makes any difference, it's the same ticket in both cases (an in-boundary 1-6 Travelcard), it's just a quirk of the online booking systems that you have to provide an origin in order to get them to sell the ticket at all.

 

[talldave]

And as I've discovered, you can't book the Victoria ticket online. After a 10 minute battle with the utterly **** touchscreens on the machines at Littlehaven I managed to buy the BZ ticket for cash as machines not working for cards. I bought the Travelcard from the guard (although sadly, that's not working any ticket barriers, so I'm having a fun day!)

A note for the people who design ticket machines - when a card transaction fails, why not offer cash as another option rather than cancelling the whole transaction and putting the customer through touchscreen hell again???

Apparently Littlehaven machines have been unable to accept cards for two days.

Will try the Gatwick Express on the way home.....

 

[RJ]

And as I've discovered, you can't book the Victoria ticket online. After a 10 minute battle with the utterly **** touchscreens on the machines at Littlehaven I managed to buy the BZ ticket for cash as machines not working for cards. I bought the Travelcard from the guard (although sadly, that's not working any ticket barriers, so I'm having a fun day!)

A note for the people who design ticket machines - when a card transaction fails, why not offer cash as another option rather than cancelling the whole transaction and putting the customer through touchscreen hell again???

Apparently Littlehaven machines have been unable to accept cards for two days.

Will try the Gatwick Express on the way home.....

Good luck getting through the barriers at Victoria! Travelcards normally work them, but it sounds like yours isn't playing ball!

 

[talldave]

Good luck getting through the barriers at Victoria! Travelcards normally work them, but it sounds like yours isn't playing ball!

I won't even bother trying, it's failed every barrier so far (Victoria plus underground barriers). I shall have to show my Travelcard & BZ6 ticket to one of the folks in red guarding platforms 13/14 at Victoria. I suspect it's going to be an interesting discussion!

 

[button_boxer]

And as I've discovered, you can't book the Victoria ticket online.

I've found that to buy an in-boundary Travelcard online I can use as the fake "origin" any station that is within the relevant zones but is not a London Terminal. I generally use Finsbury Park or Clapham Junction.

 

[hassaanhc]

Good luck getting through the barriers at Victoria! Travelcards normally work them, but it sounds like yours isn't playing ball!

Isn't it normal for Avantix issued tickets to not work barriers? My brother has had a Travelcard issued by one of those machines that didn't work barriers all day, and some LUL/Southeastern staff did look a bit suspiciously at the ticket! :P

 

[talldave]

I've found that to buy an in-boundary Travelcard online I can use as the fake "origin" any station that is within the relevant zones but is not a London Terminal. I generally use Finsbury Park or Clapham Junction.

Thanks for that. Finsbury Park would be good for simplifying the Gatwick Express argument. I wanted to avoid any station on the Brighton line.

 

[trentside]

Isn't it normal for Avantix issued tickets to not work barriers? My brother has had a Travelcard issued by one of those machines that didn't work barriers all day, and some LUL/Southeastern staff did look a bit suspiciously at the ticket! :P

They should work barriers, but from my experience it's a bit hit and miss. Some will work everywhere, some only certain places and others nowhere at all. Tickets issued from the same machine, minutes apart, can vary!

 

[Tetchytyke]

There was a thread on issues with the Leeds gateline last year and the Northern manager for the gatelines explained the two main issues with Avantix: it doesn't check the encoding at the end of the print run and the guards will sometimes pull the ticket out before it has been printed and encoded.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1611673&postcount=65

 

[talldave]

Well I showed my pair of tickets to the guy on the Gatwick Express barrier at London Victoria and he didn't bat an eyelid and let me through! I was amazed. Maybe next time I'll try an East Croydon Travelcard.

 

[yorkie]

Some Southern staff sometimes take a dislike to people travelling on their Gatwick Express route on tickets that they perceive as not being extortionately priced, but there's no doubt it's valid.

It doesn't matter what the 'origin' of the Travelcard is, but I agree that an origin of East Croydon increases the chances that one of those minority of troublemakers incorrectly declares your ticket combination to be invalid, if such an individual is encountered.

 

[Kite159]

The only station which has taken a disliking to a travelcard for me (excluding exit & re-entry within a couple minutes) is Fenchurch Street. One of the gateline even said it wasn't 'valid' there.

I'm guessing the £6.10 BZ6 to Gatwick tickets (so £4 with network railcard discount at weekends) is the cheapest way to doing the 442s on Gatwick Express duties, working with a outer boundary travelcard? If so a 442 Sunday might be in order in the new year (to get the 442s before they are replaced with the 387s)

 

[Starmill]

I normally use Strawberry Hill as my travelcard origin, although last time I got Turkey Street just for the "lolz". If I buy one from a VT Ticket office they will use London Euston.

 

[talldave]

I think so.

I've already improved my Gatwick to London travel by splitting at East Croydon, which changes the Southern only restriction to Any permitted as well as saving money. That meant I could chop and change between Southern and Thameslink services. By using a Gatwick - Boundary Zone 6 ticket instead of Gatwick- East Croydon ticket, the Gatwick Express becomes an option as well. Yes it's a few pence more but worth it.

Can't wait until 2 Jan to add a Lichfield season into the mix!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I normally use Strawberry Hill as my travelcard origin, although last time I got Turkey Street just for the "lolz". If I buy one from a VT Ticket office they will use London Euston.

Nice!! Turkey Street it is for a seasonal theme! !

 

[hassaanhc]

They should work barriers, but from my experience it's a bit hit and miss. Some will work everywhere, some only certain places and others nowhere at all. Tickets issued from the same machine, minutes apart, can vary!

Oh ok. That was the first Avantix ticket I'd encountered and it didn't work, but I remembered previous discussion on here (might be the link posted below by Arctic Troll).

 

[talldave]

I just thought I'd update on my success using Boundary Zone tickets on the Gatwick Express, as I've done a few journeys now.

It's been 100% successful with no questions or challenges, despite the fact that I always approach a staffed barrier and get the staff member to let me through. Buying a "Turkey Street" Travelcard has increased the pause as they stare at the ticket, but nothing's been said. One staff member relieves me of the BZ ticket as I arrive at Victoria (which seems the logical thing to do) but all the others just let me through. I haven't tried a "Croydon stations" Travelcard yet - I'll do that once I'm bored with the festive Turkey Street!

I've also successfully travelled on the 09:20 Gatwick Express without any challenges of my ticket's Off Peak status.

From Gatwick, you're looking at £15 for a day's Travelcard usage in London and return travel on the Gatwick Express, provided you start on the 09:20 service or later. After Quidco cashback, that's £14.64 for me. If Southern sold BZ tickets online that would reduce to £14.40.

After 2nd Jan next year those costs will reduce even further with a "Lichfield" Gold Card.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I used a BZ6 ticket on Gatwick Express and was told by the Southern clerk it wasn't valid, but the gateline dragon at the GatEx platforms at Vic it was. The platform despatch at Gatwick said it wasn't, the gateline dragon at Gatwick said it was... :P

 

[tsr]

I used a BZ6 ticket on Gatwick Express and was told by the Southern clerk it wasn't valid, but the gateline dragon at the GatEx platforms at Vic it was. The platform despatch at Gatwick said it wasn't, the gateline dragon at Gatwick said it was... :P

The majority of platform staff at Gatwick are not (fully, or at all) trained in ticketing matters, so I would not rely on their advice on this.

 

[talldave]

You can use the ticket barriers at Gatwick with your BZ ticket - so you avoid interaction with any staff there. Although, when I was experimenting, I determined that the ticket barriers only allow Off Peak tickets through from 09:13 onwards.

It's only at Victoria that I'm not sure either ticket would operate the barrier (maybe someone else can advise on this speculation?), hence the need to approach the folks dressed in red, all of whom have been fine with me.

[PS: I've logged a complaint with Southern that their website doesn't sell BZ tickets - they've apparently passed this to their escalations team who will contact me (and yes, I do have "flying pigs" on my xmas list!!).]

 

[yorkie]

I used a BZ6 ticket on Gatwick Express and was told by the Southern clerk it wasn't valid, but the gateline dragon at the GatEx platforms at Vic it was. The platform despatch at Gatwick said it wasn't, the gateline dragon at Gatwick said it was... :P

Southern give some of their staff extremely poor training, and especially so in the case of their staff who have anything to do with their Gatwick Express route trains. However it is very rare that Southern bother with on-train checks on either their Brighton Express or Gatwick Express routes. So most of the time you're dealing with gateline staff.

It is rare for gateline staff of any TOC to be adequately trained in ticketing matters, but it is especially so of Southern.

There are some Southern gateline who are very knowledgeable, but they tend to have acquired their knowledge on this forum, and NOT by the training (or lack of) provided One of whom knows exactly what it's like to have a valid ticket rejected because of non-existent rules that were a fiction of the gateline assistant's imagination (before he started working for them).

So, yes, expect to be told valid tickets are invalid. But that does not in any way invalidate the tickets so you can just ignore them, providing you're absolutely confident it's valid.

 

[Paul Kelly]

[PS: I've logged a complaint with Southern that their website doesn't sell BZ tickets - they've apparently passed this to their escalations team who will contact me (and yes, I do have "flying pigs" on my xmas list!!).]

Boundary Zone tickets are not permitted to be issued as "Ticket on Departure" (ToD) tickets, so even if the website could sell them they would need to post them out. I presume all the TOCs would need to agree with each other if they were going to allow them to be issued in ToD bookings; not really sure.

 

[talldave]

Boundary Zone tickets are not permitted to be issued as "Ticket on Departure" (ToD) tickets, so even if the website could sell them they would need to post them out. I presume all the TOCs would need to agree with each other if they were going to allow them to be issued in ToD bookings; not really sure.

That's weird, why? I buy it from the same machine that prints my ToD Travelcard. It just means I hog the machine for longer.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I don't know why unfortunately; it's just something I've heard from people in a position to know!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I buy it from the same machine that prints my ToD Travelcard.

That's certainly a good reason in favour of removing the restriction. It means they can't reply that a member of staff needs to check you have a valid Travelcard before selling the boundary zone ticket. Did you make that point in your complaint?

 

[talldave]

I don't know why unfortunately; it's just something I've heard from people in a position to know!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That's certainly a good reason in favour of removing the restriction. It means they can't reply that a member of staff needs to check you have a valid Travelcard before selling the boundary zone ticket. Did you make that point in your complaint?

No, I simply pointed out that their ticket machines sell BZ tickets but their website does not and asked when they will rectify this anomaly. It's just illogical. It also means I spend longer grappling with the abysmal touchscreens on Southern's ticket machines which are quite frankly pathetic.

 

[bb21]

No, I simply pointed out that their ticket machines sell BZ tickets but their website does not and asked when they will rectify this anomaly. It's just illogical.

I don't think this will necessarily be an "acceptable" argument when ticketing is concerned. There are probably historical reasons and possibly revenue reasons involved with lots of stakeholders left, right and centre. It probably isn't something Southern can decide or even influence.

But we shall see.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Gatwick to BZ6 is the same price as Gatwick to East Croydon. Unless you're on a Day Travelcard it's usually easier and simpler to get the East Croydon ticket, which works the barriers at Gatwick without a fuss. Normally when I ask for BZ6 at Gatwick they sell me the East Croydon ticket anyway.

 

[talldave]

The Anytime tickets are the same price but Off Peak the BZ6 ticket is 20p more - weird since the boundary is closer to Gatwick than East Croydon. But the crucial point is that you can't use an East Croydon ticket split on Gatwick Express.

I assume that's why the Gatwick Express branded ticket office sells you the wrong ticket to prevent you using their alleged premium service without buying a ludicrously overpriced ticket.

I prefer to use a ticket machine that sells me what I ask for!

 

[Kite159]

Gatwick to BZ6 is the same price as Gatwick to East Croydon. Unless you're on a Day Travelcard it's usually easier and simpler to get the East Croydon ticket, which works the barriers at Gatwick without a fuss. Normally when I ask for BZ6 at Gatwick they sell me the East Croydon ticket anyway.

The staff at Gatwick probably sells you an East Croydon ticket as it's (probably) easier for them.

And to stop you using the Gat Express branded services.