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STM staff in Manchester

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pstm01

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I've read some of the comments regarding stm staff in Manchester and as a employee of stm i just want to suggest that people get some facts right before bad mouthing people. If you have any questions re stm post them and i will reply as best i can. pstm01
 
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maniacmartin

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Which comments about STM do you think are inaccurate?
 
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LowLevel

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As a train guard I've been, personally, on the receiving end of several stupid antics from employees of 'Max n Paddy Rail Support' and I stand by every derogatory comment I've made. Obviously you're not all like that but I've not come across many shining examples. I wouldn't mind so much but I don't even work for Northern Rail and they still take it upon themselves to **** about with my train.

STM and their ilk should stick to providing security guards, not poorly trained Poundland railway staff.
 
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Jonfun

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Amongst other issues I've seen, the main ones are STM staff being downright rude to passengers, not being particularly knowledgeable about the tickets they inspect and sell, and preventing traincrew from accessing their trains, or impeding them when alighting. Of course it isn't all, but it's enough to form a negative impression.
 

185

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I've read some of the comments regarding STM staff in Manchester and as a employee of STM I just want to suggest that people get some facts right before bad mouthing people. If you have any questions re-STM post them and I will reply as best I can. pstm01

Many of your former colleagues who left agree with many of the comments, although the real enemy people should realise, is Northern Rail management and their failed predecessors at First North Western.

The person running the STM-Northern Rail contract, Dominic Warren-Browne has done so much wrong over the years, should never have been recruited from G4S. From my perspective as a TOC manager some time ago, he was a nightmare to deal with.

From a guards perspective, I understand why others aren't happy with them - they steal commission which many consider part of the expected wage. That said, I would rather forgo any commission to allow STM to prevent the problems from boarding in the first place.
 

Starmill

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It's incredibly foolish of Northern having you there with, no offence, bit not a clue. Lots of passengers ask things like is this ticket valid on this train or when is my train to x etc. the answer is invariably 'ask the station staff' - which confuses some passengers because they think you are the station staff.

Furthermore, a lot of normals have said to me 'they don't even look at you tickets' and suchlike, and from the way people behave I think it's quite clear that some people are just walking straight past you without valid tickets.

You can't accept warrants, and you can't sell the products I want that aren't a single or return somewhere. Some of you cannot even do >1 fare per transaction, which is unbelievable really.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Dear pstm01, just a few things I would like to say

90% of your colleagues are muppets who cause passengers and staff no end of trouble with their useless advice and non existent ticketing skills.

10% should be hired on the spot by Northern as they do a excellent job considering what they have to work with.


That is all.
 

CC 72100

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Dear pstm01, just a few things I would like to say

90% of your colleagues are muppets who cause passengers and staff no end of trouble with their useless advice and non existent ticketing skills.

How much of that is due to lack of training though? If it's because of attitude then it's a fair gripe, but if they just haven't got the required knowledge to do their job, then that's the fault of the company/ those who train them.

I should clarify that I've never dealt with them, but I just can't see how 90% are muppets through their own fault, but victims of insufficient training - yes, very much possible.
 

ANorthernGuard

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How much of that is due to lack of training though? If it's because of attitude then it's a fair gripe, but if they just haven't got the required knowledge to do their job, then that's the fault of the company/ those who train them.

I should clarify that I've never dealt with them, but I just can't see how 90% are muppets through their own fault, but victims of insufficient training - yes, very much possible.

trust me I have had years upon years of dealing with them. They don't improve the longer they are there. Luckily Northern have seen the light and started poaching the decent ones bit by bit but the look on the supervisors faces after a shift says it all.
 

Monty

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I have to say my own personal opinion of STM isn't particularly high. SWT use them a lot for barrier work and event security, the staff seem friendly and polite enough but their ticketing and railway knowledge is very limited.
 

PaxVobiscum

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I've read some of the comments regarding stm staff in Manchester and as a employee of stm i just want to suggest that people get some facts right before bad mouthing people. If you have any questions re stm post them and i will reply as best i can. pstm01

Welcome to RailUK forums :)

I've had very little contact with STM staff so I won't comment, but I'll ask a question since we were invited to do so.

How long is the training for staff embarking on Northern Rail support duties?
 

Bodiddly

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I have no experience with STM as a company, but I have had numerous occasions where I have been harangued and jostled by private security.
Seems to me like it's an industry wide lack of training on how to treat people. Granted, the less desirable element of our wonderful society might need to be 'sorted out by the boys' but the vast majority of law abiding citizens get a wee bit miffed at being told what to do by a goon in a shiny uniform.
As the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts.
 

pstm01

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Welcome to RailUK forums :)

I've had very little contact with STM staff so I won't comment, but I'll ask a question since we were invited to do so.

How long is the training for staff embarking on Northern Rail support duties?

All staff receive 2 days ticket training and then have 3 days advantix machine training.
 

DelayRepay

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Do you have a target to catch a certain number of passengers without a ticket?
 

pstm01

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It's incredibly foolish of Northern having you there with, no offence, bit not a clue. Lots of passengers ask things like is this ticket valid on this train or when is my train to x etc. the answer is invariably 'ask the station staff' - which confuses some passengers because they think you are the station staff.

Furthermore, a lot of normals have said to me 'they don't even look at you tickets' and suchlike, and from the way people behave I think it's quite clear that some people are just walking straight past you without valid tickets.

You can't accept warrants, and you can't sell the products I want that aren't a single or return somewhere. Some of you cannot even do >1 fare per transaction, which is unbelievable really.

All staff are shown how to accept warrants and vouchers so next time they won't accept your warrant ask to speak to a team leader cause its just the staff not wanting the paperwork. Any products except from advance tickets, seat reservations and monthly and annual tickets can be done on advantix machines so are able to be provided by stm machinist.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Do you have a target to catch a certain number of passengers without a ticket?

No we don't have a target to reach as each day is different. Some days we can have more passengers without tickets than other days.
 

PaxVobiscum

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All staff receive 2 days ticket training and then have 3 days advantix machine training.

Thanks for that, pstm01.

Perhaps some of the TOC staff can cast some light on how this compares with the training they have had?

I think it is clear from the Railway Jobs and Careers forum that TOC recruitment is very rigorous, however it is not clear to me from the STM website how that compares with STM.

I note the training courses offered by STM to others in the Transport Industry.
 

LowLevel

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My retail training as a guard was 10 days in the classroom plus 2 days on the job. All days included theory work and working with an Avantix practising. On top of that was 10 days general on the job training with a mentor.
 

oddiesjack

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Backing up what A Northern Guard said, there are definitely some stm staff at Piccadilly who ought to be immediately poached by Northern, because they know how to work the Avantix machines AND seem motivated and pleasant. Sadly, I've not seen a single stm person this week at Piccadilly, as i was going to try and discreetly read a couple of name badges and email a "poach these people" message to Northern.
 

185

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Northern have seen their bottoms of late.

Another company poached several STM staff in Autumn. Northern later offered at least two of them guard jobs. I know of one who has told Northern where to carefully insert their belated job offer :)
 
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scotsman

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Northern have seen their bottoms of late.

Another company poached several STM staff in Autumn. Northern later offered at least two of them guard jobs. I know of one who has told Northern where to carefully insert their belated job offer :)

If your contacts are the same as mine, one of them had only been in the job a few weeks. He was offered a job with a different TOC, and he told them to stick it...
 

hairyhandedfool

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Thanks for that, pstm01.

Perhaps some of the TOC staff can cast some light on how this compares with the training they have had?....

Back when I joined the railway, in 1998, my ticket office training course was three weeks. This included Advance Purchase tickets, checking restriction codes, calculating refunds, and season ticket changeovers. It also included things like reading manuals and timetables, a lost art these days.

I think the course now is two weeks at most and probably includes any 'induction' stuff that is required.
 

6Gman

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All staff are shown how to accept warrants and vouchers so next time they won't accept your warrant ask to speak to a team leader cause its just the staff not wanting the paperwork.

A response which says a lot! When I go to Manchester I'm usually in a hurry - the idea that to get my ticket I should wait to speak to a Team Leader is totally unacceptable.
 

hairyhandedfool

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I don't think that is what pstm01 meant (regardless of the reality). In the short term it'd probably mean a bit of a wait, but longer term, I'm sure the team leaders are going to get a bit p****d off with being called over to deal with something that the STM staff should be dealing with (and hopefully being made to look like a t*t will have an effect on the STM staff).
 

muz379

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Tbh as a guard my perspective is that all of the issues I have had with STM staff I Dont blame the staff themselves apart from the odd few who are just really rude or aggressive people .

My experience is about 75% aren't really interested in doing their job well , just wanna show up and get paid .However asside from the off few who just dont have any manners most are pleasant people. I cant really say I blame them if I was only getting paid close to minimum wage standing in some windy station outside in all weathers all day , without proper mess room facilities being provided , without the same perks that northern staff get (free parking,decent sick pay,free travel ,etc etc etc ) then id probably put little effort or take little pride in my work .
By and large their staff take as much if not more abuse than guards , but ive seen STM staff being put straight back on the barriers only hours after being threatened/abused etc etc . If that happened to a guard your job would get covered and then depending on the severity/nature of incident you might need to take some paid leave .

Then there are 25% these are the ones that go above and beyond ,take pride in their work and generally are knowledgeable and provide a good service . and considering all Ive said above these are the ones Northern should really be snapping up for guards and station staff jobs .

Tbh the reason for a great deal of the issues and animosity between STM staff and Northern staff boils down to the fact that when It was G4s northern let G4s train their own staff despite the fact that they would be wearing the same uniform as us . I dont have a problem with them wearing the same uniform , if they can be trained to the same standards . What I did have a problem with was someone who is trained for 2 days on something guards are trained for 2 weeks plus on wearing the same uniform as me . My Retail training consisted of 1 week learning how to use the avantix (very basic switch it on and produce basic singles and returns ),2-3 days looking at types of tickets basic restrictions and other ticketing background info,1 day looking at cash regs and payment methods - fixing chip and pin issues etc etc , 2 days local ticket training (TFGM,Merseytravel and WYPTE for my depot) and then 5 days working trains with a machine under the supervision of a minder . I was assessed on my retail knowledge by a written exam , a practical exam and verbal questioning by my manager . when it was G4s I believe training consisted of less than a week before being let loose with an avantix .

As for the staff levels of effort . As I said above I dont really blame the staff for this , you pay them peanuts , and you treat them the way I have no doubt a company like STM treats people and you get what you pay for . Like I said If I was being paid close to minimum wage to stand in a station that functioned like a wind tunnel , or out in the rain all day I dont think it would take long for me to become indifferent . Why bother challenging a fare dodger if all your gonna get is a load of abuse and no backing or support from a manager . Kudos to those who really do put an effort in and I hope one day they can get recruited by a TOC paying a fair wage for a fair days work .Either that or I hope that they can move to an industry they really want to work in .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've read some of the comments regarding stm staff in Manchester and as a employee of stm i just want to suggest that people get some facts right before bad mouthing people. If you have any questions re stm post them and i will reply as best i can. pstm01

All I really have to ask is what is the current wage if you dont mind divulging , and how many of your colleagues are employed on zero or low <10 hour contracts ?
 
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BurtonM

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I'm pleased to hear Northern are directly employing those worthy of it, even more so because it gets them out of STM's clueless hands.
I hate trying to work out what to do with them - do you just float past holding something resembling a ticket, or bother trying to show them? When I do the latter I'm usually just met with a perplexed numbskull mumbling ''yes' or 'okay' or whatever, paying little or no attention to my ticket. The look on their faces almost says 'why did you bother, I don't care about this'.
 

Blindtraveler

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My gripe, and forgive me as not sure when the switch between G4S and STM Happened and even less sure if its a new company or a rebrand or change of ownership and management of the old one is that on 2 occasions I have, as a Registered Blind passenger been unable to buy from a TVM at an unstaffed station as they are not user friendly, I have not made contact with the guard and on arival at Manchester have been treated like a criminal, twice! ↲↲


On both occasions I have been willing to pay and the first time it was the ticket office staff who provided the required evidence to sort it and when it worked its way back to Northern they appologised, compensated, refunded and assured it wouldnt happen again. Well, 9 months later, it did and this time I got the £80 fixed penalty thing which I paid, along with the ticket cost and also enclosed a letter explaining everything I was not happy about. 2 months later I got Northerns Lawyers on the phone wondering how much I was planning to sue them for as I apparently had every right to. I didnt, havnt and woant but I would like to know why this isnt covered in training for the by and large clueless idiots doing the frontline jobs, and in this I include supervisors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I would also like to welcome pstm01 to the forum. You are clearly one of them with brains and who gives a flying youknowwhat both about the job itself and the company (S) you do it for. I woant personally ever have a pop at a member of staff on here, discussions and debates yes but a go, no!
 

pstm01

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Backing up what A Northern Guard said, there are definitely some stm staff at Piccadilly who ought to be immediately poached by Northern, because they know how to work the Avantix machines AND seem motivated and pleasant. Sadly, I've not seen a single stm person this week at Piccadilly, as i was going to try and discreetly read a couple of name badges and email a "poach these people" message to Northern.

During the Christmas and New year period only 1 shift is in operation that's either 9 till 7 or 8 till 6.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Tbh as a guard my perspective is that all of the issues I have had with STM staff I Dont blame the staff themselves apart from the odd few who are just really rude or aggressive people .

My experience is about 75% aren't really interested in doing their job well , just wanna show up and get paid .However asside from the off few who just dont have any manners most are pleasant people. I cant really say I blame them if I was only getting paid close to minimum wage standing in some windy station outside in all weathers all day , without proper mess room facilities being provided , without the same perks that northern staff get (free parking,decent sick pay,free travel ,etc etc etc ) then id probably put little effort or take little pride in my work .
By and large their staff take as much if not more abuse than guards , but ive seen STM staff being put straight back on the barriers only hours after being threatened/abused etc etc . If that happened to a guard your job would get covered and then depending on the severity/nature of incident you might need to take some paid leave .

Then there are 25% these are the ones that go above and beyond ,take pride in their work and generally are knowledgeable and provide a good service . and considering all Ive said above these are the ones Northern should really be snapping up for guards and station staff jobs .

Tbh the reason for a great deal of the issues and animosity between STM staff and Northern staff boils down to the fact that when It was G4s northern let G4s train their own staff despite the fact that they would be wearing the same uniform as us . I dont have a problem with them wearing the same uniform , if they can be trained to the same standards . What I did have a problem with was someone who is trained for 2 days on something guards are trained for 2 weeks plus on wearing the same uniform as me . My Retail training consisted of 1 week learning how to use the avantix (very basic switch it on and produce basic singles and returns ),2-3 days looking at types of tickets basic restrictions and other ticketing background info,1 day looking at cash regs and payment methods - fixing chip and pin issues etc etc , 2 days local ticket training (TFGM,Merseytravel and WYPTE for my depot) and then 5 days working trains with a machine under the supervision of a minder . I was assessed on my retail knowledge by a written exam , a practical exam and verbal questioning by my manager . when it was G4s I believe training consisted of less than a week before being let loose with an avantix .

As for the staff levels of effort . As I said above I dont really blame the staff for this , you pay them peanuts , and you treat them the way I have no doubt a company like STM treats people and you get what you pay for . Like I said If I was being paid close to minimum wage to stand in a station that functioned like a wind tunnel , or out in the rain all day I dont think it would take long for me to become indifferent . Why bother challenging a fare dodger if all your gonna get is a load of abuse and no backing or support from a manager . Kudos to those who really do put an effort in and I hope one day they can get recruited by a TOC paying a fair wage for a fair days work .Either that or I hope that they can move to an industry they really want to work in .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


All I really have to ask is what is the current wage if you dont mind divulging , and how many of your colleagues are employed on zero or low <10 hour contracts ?

The machine operators are on£6.53 per hour and checkers are on £6.50 per hour
Since stm took over in April a large number are agency staff.
 

mrking

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I just want to say the 2 stm staff at Wilmslow in the mornings are polite and very helpful and friendly. Which is different to some of The ticket office staff who are argumentative. These 2 should definitely be taken on by northern they would be an asset to the company.
 

D841 Roebuck

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I have just bought a ticket from an STM operative at Manchester Victoria.

She was most helpful and polite, and when I asked for a Manchester Day Ranger asked me which version I required (possibly recognising me as a potential tram basher). I was also impressed that she was training a young lass at the same time and demonstrating exactly how to find the ticket on her machine.

I do like the way the "red" and "green" channels are organised at MCV - clearly signposted and making the process obvious to those in need of a ticket.

As a side note, the pair of Jehovahs Mormon Scientists outside the station looked cheerful, albeit cold... :)
 
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