Arriva accused of 'massive rail fail' after 150 passengers unable to board packed tra

[merlodlliw]

I am only putting this story from the local media up, due to many Forum members being out of the circulation area.
I make no comment about situation,however it makes me wonder why the new loco hauled service was not drafted in.I presume it was Saturday.

Link for picture http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/arriva-accused-massive-rail-fail-8353293

Arriva accused of 'massive rail fail' after 150 passengers unable to board packed train
Dec 28, 2014 17:53 By Rhodri Barker
Holyhead to Brimingham service so packed that six rail users had to sit in the driver's cab

An overcrowded train was so packed that six passengers were forced to sit in the driver’s cab, scores more were forced to stand and 150 others turned away because there was no room for them.

Arriva Trains Wales apologised after they were blasted by passengers on the 09:23 from Holyhead, which set off for Birmingham with only two carriages.

Dane Rowlands told the Daily Post that the train was “so overcrowded” that he and some others “ended up sitting with the driver”.

Other irate travellers described the situation as a “disgrace” as the aisles filled with standing passengers and others found themselves unable to board.

Services run by Virgin Trains from Holyhead had been cancelled on Saturday morning due to engineering work.

Some passengers on the Arriva service took to social media to criticise the train operator for being ill prepared at a busy time of year.

Eleanor Harrison tweeted: “Why only 2 coaches on a busy day? Passengers turned away at last stop.”

She estimated that 150 passengers had been unable to board the train at various stations, including more than 30 at Flint.

Ms Harrison wrote: “I’m standing for 3 hours. Same problem last year. Will it be different next year?”

Lewis Close wrote on Twitter: “Two carriages on the Holyhead - Birmingham train, is this some sort of joke?”

Another passenger tweeted: “Massive rail fail @ArrivaTW - only 2 carriages put on for the Holyhead to Birmingham service. Absolutely shocking.”

Other services in North Wales on Saturday were delayed or cancelled as thousands across the UK experienced travel misery.

A spokesman for Arriva Trains Wales said: “This time of year is always a busy time for rail travel, and we are doing all we can to provide as much extra capacity as possible with the limited number of trains we have available.

I have put the story up on a lap top,which did not allow me to follow the forums rules on presentation,

 

[berneyarms]

The loco hauled stock was out on Saturday operating as follows:

08 46 Crewe to Holyhead
12 22 Holyhead to Crewe
14 24 Crewe to Holyhead
19 33 Holyhead to Crewe

It would be a bit hard for it to be in two places at once!

Surely the real issue here is that the Virgin services were cancelled?

 

[NJTom]

I picked up the next train at a request stop over anglesey, and lightly loaded. Over the holidays, you have to expect sometimes that you have to wait a couple of hours for a train. Sorry, but that's the reality of rail travel, everyone wants to travel at the same time.

 

[pemma]

Surely the real issue here is that the Virgin services were cancelled?

I recall last year someone started a thread complaining about the Northern Stoke-Manchester service being inadequate pre-Christmas based on one service. It turned out that line had more adequate provision than other lines and the real problem was XC had turned around a service at Macclesfield so Northern were carrying the XC passengers as well as their own.

 

[yorksrob]

Looks like that Pretendolino would have come in handy. Pity Virgin got rid of it.

 

[PHILIPE]

What often happens in the case of Engineering Work is that TOCs say you can connect with the xxx (TOC) service to continue. There often seems to be an apparent failure to take into account if those services can accommodate those extra passengers over and above the normal ones. An example was when Central Trains operated the Cardiff to Nottingham service (prior to XC) and bustitution was in place between Birmingham New St & Gloucester. Passengers were advised to travel by regular ATW services forward to Cardiff. This occurred on an occasion when there was a Rugby International in Cardiff. This does not occur now as XC have Traincrews at Bristol and they can operate their service between Gloucester and Cardiff.

 

[Greenback]

Surely the real issue here is that the Virgin services were cancelled?

Yes, that does seem to be the case, though it must have been very frustrating to have a two car unit on that service.

 

[Class 170101]

A lack of co-ordination between operators seems to be here as well. A better joint plan seems to be necessary as well.

As for the Prentendolino thats now at Crown Point Depot but what about the WAG set is this based in Holyhead still?

 

[Geezertronic]

Looks like that Pretendolino would have come in handy. Pity Virgin got rid of it.

How would the Pretendolino have helped?

 

[Quickthorn]

Holyhead to Brimingham service so packed that six rail users had to sit in the driver's cab

[...]

[...] the train was “so overcrowded” that he and some others “ended up sitting with the driver”.

Did this really happen? I thought there were strict rules as to who could travel in cabs, and these wouldn't include passengers.

 

[yorksrob]

How would the Pretendolino have helped?

I'm guessing that the Virgin services along the route were cancelled to provide Voyagers for blockade busters elsewhere, so, either use the Pretendolino to deputise for some of the missing Voyagers, or use it for the blockade buster and leave a Voyager or two in North Wales.

 

[Bayum]

I picked up the next train at a request stop over anglesey, and lightly loaded. Over the holidays, you have to expect sometimes that you have to wait a couple of hours for a train. Sorry, but that's the reality of rail travel, everyone wants to travel at the same time.

That isn't the reality of rail travel at all.

People book tickets for particular services, sometimes months in advance. If I had booked tickets for this particular Train and was not allowed on due to overcrowding I wouldn't be happy.

Can you imagine what a mess the network would be if all train operators ran trains with that in mind? Oh, these towns don't need to worry about a service - by the time the train gets to them they'll be overcrowded and they can get a train two hours later.

 

[berneyarms]

Yes, that does seem to be the case, though it must have been very frustrating to have a two car unit on that service.

But that train is normally only a two car service. It combines with another set at Shrewsbury. It was perfectly normal for it to be a two car unit.

The issue is clearly that the 08:55 Holyhead-Euston Virgin Trains service did not operate, which then caused a much higher loading for the following train than normal.

ATW then end up being blamed for another operator's lack of service and are expected to magically find additional rolling stock that it does not have.

To me something needs to happen - with heads being knocked together - between the two operators so that if VT services are being cancelled such as this that an alternative service along the coast is provided in that path - as far as Crewe at least.

 

[185143]

Holyhead to Brimingham service so packed that six rail users had to sit in the driver's cab

[...]

[...] the train was “so overcrowded” that he and some others “ended up sitting with the driver”.

Did this really happen? I thought there were strict rules as to who could travel in cabs, and these wouldn't include passengers.

I did it on a Northern 150 from Chorley as I was only going to Bolton. I got a cab ride on an intercity TOC into London last year, with the DM in the cab and I was told this was the only way it was possible.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Did this really happen? I thought there were strict rules as to who could travel in cabs, and these wouldn't include passengers.

Sounds doubtful to me. I've known guards on rammed 153s allow passengers to stand in the secondman's side of the back cab, but pretty sure passengers in the driving cab didn't happen.

 

[RPM]

Did this really happen? I thought there were strict rules as to who could travel in cabs, and these wouldn't include passengers.

I suspect this is an exaggeration. Probably means they were standing in the vestibule immediately behind the driver.

Would this have been a 158 or a 175? If the former, can the driver shut him/herself away in their half of the cab leaving the opposite side free for standing passengers in an emergency? I kind of doubt it but I've never driven a 158 so couldn't say for sure.

 

[455driver]

Surely the real issue here is that the Virgin services were cancelled?

You cant go blaming Virgin for anything on here, they are brilliant!



Apparently!

 

[455driver]

Did this really happen? I thought there were strict rules as to who could travel in cabs, and these wouldn't include passengers.

There are and no it shouldnt happen!

 

[CC 72100]

The issue is clearly that the 08:55 Holyhead-Euston Virgin Trains service did not operate, which then caused a much higher loading for the following train than normal.

ATW then end up being blamed for another operator's lack of service and are expected to magically find additional rolling stock that it does not have.

It would appear that way - but as far as the general public is concerned, it will appear to be Arriva's fault for having not predicted such high passenger numbers, while Saintly Virgin suffers no negative fallout from it.

 

[Greenback]

But that train is normally only a two car service. It combines with another set at Shrewsbury. It was perfectly normal for it to be a two car unit.

Yes, sorry, what I meant and didn't say very well was that it must have been frustrating for those passengers used to travelling on virgin but who had to get an ATW service instead, to see a two car unit!

The issue is clearly that the 08:55 Holyhead-Euston Virgin Trains service did not operate, which then caused a much higher loading for the following train than normal.

Exactly right.

ATW then end up being blamed for another operator's lack of service and are expected to magically find additional rolling stock that it does not have.

Again, I agree. And ATW did deploy the loco and coaches set!

To me something needs to happen - with heads being knocked together - between the two operators so that if VT services are being cancelled such as this that an alternative service along the coast is provided in that path - as far as Crewe at least.

To me, it's Virgin's responsibility to provide replacements for their withdrawn trains. They shouldn't simply give up and leave it all to someone else.

 

[merlodlliw]

The loco hauled stock was out on Saturday operating as follows:

08 46 Crewe to Holyhead
12 22 Holyhead to Crewe
14 24 Crewe to Holyhead
19 33 Holyhead to Crewe

It would be a bit hard for it to be in two places at once!

Surely the real issue here is that the Virgin services were cancelled?

I agree with VT not running causing some the problem ,but ATW must have known about the VTs being cancelled, it just seems the two just dont talk to each other,we have the ATW situation of two cars,be it winter,summer or when extra passengers will use it makes no difference,as usual the passenger suffers, which should be the first priority.

 

[Greenback]

It would appear that way - but as far as the general public is concerned, it will appear to be Arriva's fault for having not predicted such high passenger numbers, while Saintly Virgin suffers no negative fallout from it.

Indeed, ATW were in a no win situation, but the industry as a whole is a massive loser seeing as how the Christmas arrangements have panned out this year.

 

[merlodlliw]

Greenback
To me, it's Virgin's responsibility to provide replacements for their withdrawn trains. They shouldn't simply give up and leave it all to someone else.

But they do give up, The Wrexham VT is the perfect example of not providing any replacement.

 

[Geezertronic]

Does anyone know when VT decided to cancel this service and issued the notice? Also do they still have the option of 390 drags as I presume the 221s were all being used on blockbuster diversions?

 

[Greenback]

But they do give up, The Wrexham VT is the perfect example of not providing any replacement.

It shouldn't be allowed. I'd like to know what happened, who took the decisions, and what discussions there were that led to the passengers suffering this sort of voercrowding.

 

[merlodlliw]

Does anyone know when VT decided to cancel this service and issued the notice? Also do they still have the option of 390 drags as I presume the 221s were all being used on blockbuster diversions?

The timetable for Christmas from VT was on the web in very early December,no drags have been used in North Wales for almost two years.

 

[berneyarms]

I agree with VT not running causing some the problem ,but ATW must have known about the VTs being cancelled, it just seems the two just dont talk to each other,we have the ATW situation of two cars,be it winter,summer or when extra passengers will use it makes no difference,as usual the passenger suffers, which should be the first priority.

Yes - but from where do you expect ATW to magic the rolling stock from to do this?

The blame seems to constantly go onto ATW here.

Surely your beef in this and other situations should in the first place be with Virgin Trains - why are you not castigating them for not operating the services, and putting political pressure on them to solve the problems that they are creating?

If they are cancelling trains, then they should be responsible for providing alternatives. Surely you should be getting your AMs and MP to start bombarding VT management on this as they are the ones causing the problems.

The Gerald set was back in Cardiff as I understand it for Christmas, so it wasn't really an option either.

There was only one VT round trip operated on Saturday:
13:58 Holyhead to Crewe
18:53 Crewe to Holyhead

What puzzles me is why that Voyager could not have operated a service around 08:45 or so to Crewe and then returned as the 10:54 from Crewe to Holyhead?

 

[merlodlliw]

It shouldn't be allowed. I'd like to know what happened, who took the decisions, and what discussions there were that led to the passengers suffering this sort of voercrowding.

I gain the impression the train in question must have been the first or one of the first out of Holyhead on Saturday,if some of the ferries were running? the problem should have been foreseen by ATWs Cardiff mandarins,who were probably on leave
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes - but from where do you expect ATW to magic the rolling stock from to do this?

The blame seems to constantly go onto ATW here.

Surely your beef in this and other situations should in the first place be with Virgin Trains - why are you not castigating them for not operating the services, and putting political pressure on them to solve the problems that they are creating?

ATW can magic stock when Gerald fails, so why not on Saturday,

 

[berneyarms]

I gain the impression the train in question must have been the first or one of the first out of Holyhead on Saturday,if some of the ferries were running? the problem should have been foreseen by ATWs Cardiff mandarins,who were probably on leave
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Checking Real time trains proves this is not the case.

There were earlier departures at:
06:35 to Shrewsbury
07:15 to Chester
08:20 to Shrewsbury

ATW can magic stock when Gerald fails, so why not on Saturday,

But why are you not blaming VT and following up with them? It was their train that was cancelled.

I imagine if Gerald fails and a replacement DMU is used that a following train may well be cancelled? There aren't spare sets lying in Holyhead as far as I am aware.

Apologies if I'm appearing a tad vexed here but I do think VT is being let away with murder here and ATW being blamed unfairly for it. VT should in the first instance be held accountable.

 

[6Gman]

Apologies if I'm appearing a tad vexed here but I do think VT is being let away with murder here and ATW being blamed unfairly for it. VT should in the first instance be held accountable.

In my (personal) experience when things get a bit tricky ATW does tend to try to piece things together; Virgin has an inclination to just give up and walk away.