London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[TimG]

Will it work tomorrow?

 

[Yabbadabba]

Will it work as designed? I'm using my car

 

[yorkie]

I've altered the title to clarify that this thread is to discuss the temporary timetable which commences tomorrow.

To discuss the actual reconstruction works use London Bridge reconstruction works

 

[Deepgreen]

Well - "no" is the answer! Signal failures at Merstham and at London Bridge meant abandoning my normal route via Redhill! We were told that no trains would run to London from Redhill, Merstham or Coulsdon South, but at least one (the 0840 to London Bridge) appears to have run south from Redhill then reversed (at Earlswood?) to run up the Quarry line, judging by RTT data.

 

[TimG]

Will it work tomorrow?

It was okay for me as I caught the 0548 from Brighton. The revised service suits me as I don't have to worry about falling asleep!
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It was okay for me as I caught the 0548 from Brighton. The revised service suits me as I don't have to worry about falling asleep!

Well this evening is looking very pants.

 

[Barn]

Ouch! Terrible start this evening peak due to "congestion at London Bridge".

 

[westcoaster]

All London bound trains leaving new cross gate on the slows were going through the Sussex loop this morning, is that apart of the timetable or a way of clearing new cross gate for LOROL.

 

[Bald Rick]

All London bound trains leaving new cross gate on the slows were going through the Sussex loop this morning, is that apart of the timetable or a way of clearing new cross gate for LOROL.

A bit of both.

 

[evergreenadam]

Not tonight!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hit-dangerous-overcrowding-London-Bridge.html

 

[Bishopstone]

Things were reasonably okay when I left London Bridge on the 17.22 to Eastbourne tonight.

Thereafter, another meltdown appears to have occurred. EG, the 18.23 to Eastbourne was 25 late leaving.

What's the score, those in the know?

 

[physics34]

Things were reasonably okay when I left London Bridge on the 17.22 to Eastbourne tonight.

Thereafter, another meltdown appears to have occurred. EG, the 18.23 to Eastbourne was 25 late leaving.

What's the score, those in the know?

too many trains, not enough track is the simple answer. This will happen probably daily til 2018.

There are only 3 tracks in and out of LBG compared to 4 before, and between Spa Road Junction and Bricklayers Arms Junction there are only 3 lines instead of 6.

Any slight delay will have an impact on other services.

 

[louis97]

too many trains, not enough track is the simple answer. This will happen probably daily til 2018.

Surely trains haven't been timed to run on lines that don't exist?

 

[30907]

No, but from the system is operating close to capacity now, whereas before there was considerable slack.

 

[hassaanhc]

Meanwhile from Valerie Shawcross (London Assembly Member for Lambeth and Southwark):

.@SouthernRailUK please explain why a timetabled 8-30am train (from West Norwood to London Bridge) doesn't actually exist? @LonTravelWatch

https://twitter.com/ValShawcross/status/552541733264064512

That would be the 0815 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge (due 0856). It is shown in the timetable but doesn't appear on Realtimetrains. Closest train shown from Beckenham Junction is the 0810 to Tulse Hill, which is 0823 from West Norwood.
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More signalling problems at London Bridge, leading to congestion. Passenger also taken ill at London Bridge.
Signalling problems at South Croydon.
Signalling problems at Preston Park.
Icy conditions at Reigate and Fareham-Southampton.

 

[neilm]

New timetable already, all west Croydon trains cancelled.

 

[grid56126]

New timetable already, all west Croydon trains cancelled.

All West Croydon Trains, blimey that's a bit radical.

 

[Bishopstone]

Another very poor night for train performance, although the concourse was calm.

My 18.23 to Eastbourne left at 18.41, and now appears to be in another long queue approaching East Croydon, where it will probably be leapfrogged by the 18.46 ex-Victoria, again.

The Uckfield train was being turned at Crowborough again. I hope they clear Uckfield station of tumbleweed before a train actually makes it there.

 

[neilm]

Another very poor night for train performance, although the concourse was calm.

My 18.23 to Eastbourne left at 18.41, and now appears to be in another long queue approaching East Croydon, where it will probably be leapfrogged by the 18.46 ex-Victoria, again.

The Uckfield train was being turned at Crowborough again. I hope they clear Uckfield station of tumbleweed before a train actually makes it there.

18:23 is sometimes my train, I think we will have to start going to the pub as there is time now... Got the first one to east Croydon then changed but today was worse than yesterday, 10 min delays I can deal with, 30 mins I cannot...

 

[FOH]

At London Bridge right now. Absolutely shocking. What a joke

 

[Chrisgr31]

The 18.08 to Uckfield left London Bridge about 25 minutes late, hence being turned around at Crowborough it was about 45 minutes late by then.

I think there were significantly less people walking across London Bridge (the road bridge!) on the way to the station this evening.

I did wonder earlier when Bald Rick as he said he wasn't going to start counting them until Friday, and I suspect he might have decided to delay counting them for a while

Having said that I still dont really think Network Rail or Southern can be blamed for the situation at London Bridge. We can all be wise with hindsight and the rebuilding of the station, installing extra tracks etc whilst keeping it open is a mammoth undertaking and probably a first.

Its just not possible to practice something like this.

 

[Bishopstone]

In addition to the West Croydon cancellations, the 18.08 to Crowborough was also cancelled tonight.

My 18.23 to Eastbourne left absolutely on time, which last occurred when Tony Blair was Prime Minister.

Then we got delayed at East Croydon, and the upshot was my advertised Seaford connection at Lewes was missed, for the fifth day in five. This is known as a 'Colchester', in Delay Repay lexicon.

 

[pne]

Then we got delayed at East Croydon, and the upshot was my advertised Seaford connection at Lewes was missed, for the fifth day in five. This is known as a 'Colchester', in Delay Repay lexicon.

Tell me more?

What is "this" (presumably five missed connections in as many days)?

Why is that called a "Colchester"?

 

[hassaanhc]

Changes for the coming week, Monday 12 January to Friday 16 January

• 1636, 1706, 1738, 1806 and 1836 London Bridge to West Croydon cancelled. For Anerley and Penge West change at New Cross Gate or travel via Canada Water.
• 1712, 1742 and 1813 West Croydon to London Bridge cancelled.
• 1809 Caterham to London Bridge retimed to 1805, and the 1751 departure from Tattenham Corner will now attach to this at Purley.

London Bridge - Southern and Network Rail apologise for the disruption and delays at London Bridge recently.
The new track layout on the approach to the station has meant that so far, it has been a challenge to deliver the new timetable. We have reviewed this and made some changes to a small number of evening peak services to help us to deliver an improved service for you.
These include the withdrawal of the 16.36, 17.06, 17.38, 18.06 & 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services. Passengers requiring Anerley and Penge West should travel to New Cross Gate and change for London Overground services. Alternatively, tickets will be accepted on London Underground between London Bridge and Canada Water for a change to London Overground services.
As a result of the above changes the 17.12, 17.42 and 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge services are also withdrawn.
Additionally, in order to ease congestion on the approach to London Bridge the 17.51 Tattenham Corner to London Bridge service will terminate at Purley and instead attach to the re-timed 18.09 Caterham to London Bridge service. The 18.09 Caterham to London Bridge train will depart four minutes earlier than scheduled from Caterham (18.05), Whyteleafe South (18.08), Whyteleafe (18.10) and Kenley (18.13) then attach at Purley to the 17.51 Tattenham Corner train, the combined train will then run through to London Bridge where it is scheduled to arrive at 19.03.
These arrangements will remain in place between Monday 12th and Friday 16th January 2015.
We continue to monitor the service at London Bridge and assess if any long term changes to train services are required.
To help with passenger flow at London Bridge, extra information screens have been installed to allow the concourse to be used more evenly.

 

[Bishopstone]

Tell me more?

What is "this" (presumably five missed connections in as many days)?

Why is that called a "Colchester"?

Sorry, just an attempt at humour on my part, based upon the recently reported case of the chap who commuted from Colchester to London, and was so unlucky with his choice of trains that he was able to claim over £1000 Delay Repay redress in 12 months.

My particular connection is four minutes, and even before works started on the Southern side at London Bridge, it was missed on 50%-60% of occasions on a rolling average. Factor in the latest 'issues', and there must be a reasonable chance the whole of January will pass without the advertised connection being achieved once.

 

[infobleep]

Sorry, just an attempt at humour on my part, based upon the recently reported case of the chap who commuted from Colchester to London, and was so unlucky with his choice of trains that he was able to claim over £1000 Delay Repay redress in 12 months.

My particular connection is four minutes, and even before works started on the Southern side at London Bridge, it was missed on 50%-60% of occasions on a rolling average. Factor in the latest 'issues', and there must be a reasonable chance the whole of January will pass without the advertised connection being achieved once.

Perhaps Southern should amend the official connection time at Lewes to 5 minutes so that it's no longer an official connection.

 

[Bishopstone]

Perhaps Southern should amend the official connection time at Lewes to 5 minutes so that it's no longer an official connection.

As both trains use the same track upon exit from Lewes, I think that would be seen as a fairly cynical ploy.

More likely they would re-time the London train by giving it a few minutes padding between Cooksbridge and Lewes, but then I believe it would be caught by an eastbound Marshlink service prior to Eastbourne, delaying the latter. (Which of course often happens anyway).

 

[sarahj]

As both trains use the same track upon exit from Lewes, I think that would be seen as a fairly cynical ploy.

More likely they would re-time the London train by giving it a few minutes padding between Cooksbridge and Lewes, but then I believe it would be caught by an eastbound Marshlink service prior to Eastbourne, delaying the latter. (Which of course often happens anyway).

Perhaps I should give you the number for Lewes box, then you could phone up and ask 'is it being held?'

Late at night its possible if your a just a few mins down to do this, as long as you have punters. I have also been on the Seaford train that been held, train from London comes in, goes and no one changes.

 

[Tangent]

As a Hayes line commuter, it was rather nice to come up to Victoria over the weekend - nicer, I suspect, than any journey next week will be. From a parochial perspective, I would like an extra 2tph to Victoria on top of our existing services - it would add more flexibility to central London travel, particularly as we are likely to find our off-peak links to CHX cut once the Programme is completed, limiting our access to the West End.

 

[Busaholic]

Perhaps pertinent to this thread, as an indication of how disruptive the London Bridge reconstruction is being:-
TfL have announced an extra ten buses to operate on each of the following services on Mon to Fri from tomorrow:-
21 London Bridge to Lewisham (p.m. peak only)
47 London Bridge to Lewisham
381 London Bridge to Waterloo (a.m and p.m. peaks only)

That's a total of 30 extra buses in the p.m. peak, 20 in the a.m.peak. There has already been strengthening of one or two bus routes connecting to the Greenwich line services, to enable residents of the area to get to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich easier.

I wouldn't expect these changes to be the last by any means. Sounds like public transport in the area is going to be overwhelmed during peaks for the foreseeable future.

 

[Bishopstone]

Perhaps I should give you the number for Lewes box, then you could phone up and ask 'is it being held?'

Late at night its possible if your a just a few mins down to do this, as long as you have punters. I have also been on the Seaford train that been held, train from London comes in, goes and no one changes.

Yes, that must be annoying!

I sometimes tweet Southern about the connection off the 18.23, and receive the line 'really sorry, but connections can't be held because of knock-on delays.'

Which is then contradicted less than half an hour later, when the 19.59 connection off the 18.46 ex-Victoria is held for a few minutes to await the late Down train.

In fact, the 'box seem quite strict about not holding the 18.23 connection, even for three or four minutes. I've been held on a red the wrong side of Lewes tunnel quite a few times, whilst the 19.31 for Seaford clears the section. Very frustrating!

One of the reasons the 19.31 can't be held is that the 19.40 for Newhaven Harbour - the Marine 'ghost train' - is hard on its heels. I have often wondered whether these workings could be swapped, with the 19.31 becoming the Marine terminator and the 19.40 the Seaford through service. This would ensure the London connection is made (say) 75% of the time, rather than 40%, but at the cost of a forty minute gap in Seaford services from Brighton, which are generally half-hourly. I'm sure there are other operational issues, too.