National Express

[TheGrandWazoo]

Via everywhere

The 336 still runs, it left Bristol last night at about 8pm. Couldn't do that at all!

Only (!) does Plymouth to Edinburgh now. Serves Exeter, Bristol, Birmingham, Stoke, Manchester, Carlisle and Glasgow among others.

The old service was hardly quick in Cornwall.... Penzance to Plymouth via St Ives, Hayle, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell and Liskeard (I think)

 

[theblackwatch]

I recall travelling just on day trips across the country by coach with my girlfriend in the 1980s using National Express coaches. I think there were vouchers allowing buy one get one free available regularly, similar to the Persil ones for rail travel which we also used.

I did one or two similar trips using vouchers from Mars Bars (yes really!) - perhaps it was those?

 

[Titfield]

The Mars Bar offer was a buy one ticket get one free if you had sufficient mars bar tokens.

I worked in a travel agency who were a national express agent at the time. We were next door to a Woolworths who back in those days sold sweets including mars bars. If someone came in and could qualify for the offer we used to tell them about the offer. If they were unsure we used to say look we will go and buy the mars bars for you. Invariably they were so impressed with the deal that they would let us keep the mars bars.

happy days

 

[extendedpaul]

Yes it was definitely Mars bars. I remember even picking wrappers up off the ground as well as buying loads to get the little tokens.

That was in an era when National Express charged the same for a day return as a single. We both had office jobs and always travelled on Saturdays but to book I had to go through a travel agent which I did regularly in my lunch hour from work, It often took them ages to get through only to find that one or both of the coaches I wanted to book was already full. The commission when I was able to book must have been tiny for the effort involved, they even had to hand write the tickets.

 

[quarella]

The era of competition from British Coachways was certainly interesting. I remember a journey from Loughborough to London on a Barton's Leyland Leopard. Fares were ridiculously cheap, but I think what contributed mainly to their demise was the lack of a suitable London terminus. Compared with their puddle-strewn open-air stops on the old goods yard near St Pancras station, National Express's facilities at Victoria seemed quite lavish.

That's one for a student's thesis. The socio-economic reasons that allowed Megabus to succeed where British Coachways failed.

 

[radamfi]

The German coach market was deregulated at the start of last year leading to massive competition with many companies on the main routes. National Express set up a sizeable network but has just withdrawn citing excessive competition. It would be interesting to see if the UK experience is mirrored there with one or two companies being dominant within a few years.

Now we have widespread use of online ticket buying, Megabus are not at such a disadvantage in not having a big sales network, which was probably a factor in National Express being able to easily beat competition in the past.

 

[pemma]

Does anyone know how many National Express services used to accommodate a stop in Knutsford?

 

[Welshman]

That's one for a student's thesis. The socio-economic reasons that allowed Megabus to succeed where British Coachways failed.

Actually, that's not a bad subject - I can already feel the outlines of an answer coming on!

 

[quarella]

What was the last service that operated without an onboard toilet ? I recall some pretty lengthy journies on Leyland Leopard Plaxton Panoramas without one.

Late nineties if not a bit later by which time of course a lot of bus stations and their associated facilities had been sold off.

 

[Titfield]

Yes it was definitely Mars bars. I remember even picking wrappers up off the ground as well as buying loads to get the little tokens.

That was in an era when National Express charged the same for a day return as a single. We both had office jobs and always travelled on Saturdays but to book I had to go through a travel agent which I did regularly in my lunch hour from work, It often took them ages to get through only to find that one or both of the coaches I wanted to book was already full. The commission when I was able to book must have been tiny for the effort involved, they even had to hand write the tickets.

National Express paid 10% commission to travel agents. It probably wasn't worth while selling the tickets quite honestly.

Some services were free sale (ie no reservation needed) some were freesale except when booking inside 3 days of travel (the number of days before could vary) and some were reservation compulsory (by phone or by Prestel).

Prestel was very advanced for its day.

 

[quarella]

The Badger News ticket agency in Weston-super-Mare can't have been too impressed with me in the mid nineties. I was working at Bristol Temple Meads and using the train for most shifts but for Sunday mornings 0900 start there were no trains or buses early enough, but there was a National Express departure for London at 0800 which gave me enough time to walk over from Marlbrough Street bus station. Think I still have a ticket somewhere but it took a good few minutes to write out a Weston - Bristol ticket and with the Young Persons' coach card discount they probably sold it at a loss. . If I was called in at short notice then I would have to pay the driver which produced variable results in money changing hands and issue of ticket.

 

[Martin2012]

I know this is a bit of a long shot but does anybody remember anything about the old service 332 which ran between Bristol and Birmingham on sundays only?

The 1996 and 1998 handbooks suggest that Wessex operated this service but it also got suggested to me that Turners Coachways used to run this service. Is there anybody on here who can remember who the operator for this service was and whether or not it changed at any point?

 

[pitdiver]

Further to my earlier post re "Strange Routes" Can anyone explain WHY some of them were set up. I can imagine most passengers would not go end to end so why were they operated between such diverse places eg Westward Ho! to Grimsby. I can understand Liverpool to Clacton (for Butlins) but not some of the others.

Did someone suddenly come up with the idea "let's run a coach between point A and B however strange it may seem or was there some logical thought process. Like there would be now whe NX decide to cut back some services.

 

[freetoview33]

The Badger News ticket agency in Weston-super-Mare can't have been too impressed with me in the mid nineties. I was working at Bristol Temple Meads and using the train for most shifts but for Sunday mornings 0900 start there were no trains or buses early enough, but there was a National Express departure for London at 0800 which gave me enough time to walk over from Marlbrough Street bus station. Think I still have a ticket somewhere but it took a good few minutes to write out a Weston - Bristol ticket and with the Young Persons' coach card discount they probably sold it at a loss. . If I was called in at short notice then I would have to pay the driver which produced variable results in money changing hands and issue of ticket.

Surprisingly this situation still exists today.

 

[Welshman]

Further to my earlier post re "Strange Routes" Can anyone explain WHY some of them were set up. I can imagine most passengers would not go end to end so why were they operated between such diverse places eg Westward Ho! to Grimsby. I can understand Liverpool to Clacton (for Butlins) but not some of the others.

Did someone suddenly come up with the idea "let's run a coach between point A and B however strange it may seem or was there some logical thought process. Like there would be now whe NX decide to cut back some services.

I think the starting/ending points of some routes were determined by the location of the garage supplying the coach, and rather than running the coach "light" to/from the largest centre, it made more sense to actually offer passengers a through-journey opportunity from there. This could be the case with the Holyhead - Southend service cited, as the terminal point is the Crosville Garage at Holyhead.

In other cases, it made sense for the local operator to see their long-distance coach service as an extension of their bus services, and so start/end the coach from the terminus of their "bus empire", thus saving through passengers from having to change between bus/coach of the same company at the nearby larger centre.

This would certainly be the case in the Westward Ho! - Grimsby service you cite. Westward Ho! to Barnstaple would have been run by Western National, Red Bus, or whoever, and the same company supplying the coach would start it back from Westward Ho! as an extension of their bussing facilities, and for the convenience of the through passenger.

In the case of the City Flyer service, run by Leicester City and others, to which I made an earlier reference, it deviated from the A50 link from the MI motorway into Leicester to serve the housing estate at Beaumont Leys, which was also served by Leicester City for local journeys to/from Leicester, thus allowing Leicester City to offer "their passengers" a through service to Dover/Blackpool.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Concerning the booking of coach tickets in the pre-computer age, does anyone remember the chartrooms coaching companies used to have?

I remember travelling from Halifax to London in the late 1960s on the daily through coach operated then by Yorkshire Traction. To book, I used to have to go to a local travel agent, who would then ring-up the London Coastal Coaches Chartroom [which dealt with Yorkshire-London bookings], where there would be a bank of telephones and telephonists, with a carousel of charts, one for each service per day. The telephonist would take-down the details of the required ticket, check the relevant chart, and if there was space on the requested coach, mark the chart and then supply the agent a booking reference, which was written on the ticket.

Quite a lengthy and laborious procedure for a very small commission!

 

[quarella]

View attachment 20506

View attachment 20507

Knew I still had a ticket. There would be 4 sheets of carbon paper which the driver would rip out for each leg of a journey. I assume two books would have been issued for more changes. As this was a direct journey the agent ripped out 3 leaving one for the driver.
While on National Express stock this journey was actually with Scottish Citylink between Wick and Inverness. My recollection is the train service on the North Highland line had been suspended due to industrial action on that date 23/09/96.

 

[Statto]

I think the starting/ending points of some routes were determined by the location of the garage supplying the coach, and rather than running the coach "light" to/from the largest centre, it made more sense to actually offer passengers a through-journey opportunity from there. This could be the case with the Holyhead - Southend service cited, as the terminal point is the Crosville Garage at Holyhead.

In other cases, it made sense for the local operator to see their long-distance coach service as an extension of their bus services, and so start/end the coach from the terminus of their "bus empire", thus saving through passengers from having to change between bus/coach of the same company at the nearby larger centre.

This would certainly be the case in the Westward Ho! - Grimsby service you cite. Westward Ho! to Barnstaple would have been run by Western National, Red Bus, or whoever, and the same company supplying the coach would start it back from Westward Ho! as an extension of their bussing facilities, and for the convenience of the through passenger.

In the case of the City Flyer service, run by Leicester City and others, to which I made an earlier reference, it deviated from the A50 link from the MI motorway into Leicester to serve the housing estate at Beaumont Leys, which was also served by Leicester City for local journeys to/from Leicester, thus allowing Leicester City to offer "their passengers" a through service to Dover/Blackpool.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Concerning the booking of coach tickets in the pre-computer age, does anyone remember the chartrooms coaching companies used to have?

I remember travelling from Halifax to London in the late 1960s on the daily through coach operated then by Yorkshire Traction. To book, I used to have to go to a local travel agent, who would then ring-up the London Coastal Coaches Chartroom [which dealt with Yorkshire-London bookings], where there would be a bank of telephones and telephonists, with a carousel of charts, one for each service per day. The telephonist would take-down the details of the required ticket, check the relevant chart, and if there was space on the requested coach, mark the chart and then supply the agent a booking reference, which was written on the ticket.

Quite a lengthy and laborious procedure for a very small commission!

Plus a lot of National Express network began before NBC was created with the then BET & Tiling companies coming to an agreement sharing long distance express routes, so some routes would have stayed apart from timings unaltered into the 80s after NBC created National Express.

 

[Titfield]

I think the starting/ending points of some routes were determined by the location of the garage supplying the coach, and rather than running the coach "light" to/from the largest centre, it made more sense to actually offer passengers a through-journey opportunity from there. This could be the case with the Holyhead - Southend service cited, as the terminal point is the Crosville Garage at Holyhead.

In other cases, it made sense for the local operator to see their long-distance coach service as an extension of their bus services, and so start/end the coach from the terminus of their "bus empire", thus saving through passengers from having to change between bus/coach of the same company at the nearby larger centre.

This would certainly be the case in the Westward Ho! - Grimsby service you cite. Westward Ho! to Barnstaple would have been run by Western National, Red Bus, or whoever, and the same company supplying the coach would start it back from Westward Ho! as an extension of their bussing facilities, and for the convenience of the through passenger.

In the case of the City Flyer service, run by Leicester City and others, to which I made an earlier reference, it deviated from the A50 link from the MI motorway into Leicester to serve the housing estate at Beaumont Leys, which was also served by Leicester City for local journeys to/from Leicester, thus allowing Leicester City to offer "their passengers" a through service to Dover/Blackpool.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Concerning the booking of coach tickets in the pre-computer age, does anyone remember the chartrooms coaching companies used to have?

I remember travelling from Halifax to London in the late 1960s on the daily through coach operated then by Yorkshire Traction. To book, I used to have to go to a local travel agent, who would then ring-up the London Coastal Coaches Chartroom [which dealt with Yorkshire-London bookings], where there would be a bank of telephones and telephonists, with a carousel of charts, one for each service per day. The telephonist would take-down the details of the required ticket, check the relevant chart, and if there was space on the requested coach, mark the chart and then supply the agent a booking reference, which was written on the ticket.

Quite a lengthy and laborious procedure for a very small commission!

Does anyone remember the chartrooms coaching companies used to have?

Remember? I worked in one!!

 

[Class 33]

I notice there's a bit of a bizzarre Bristol-London service departing at 0810 on weekdays. Journey time 3 hours 40 minutes! Running via Swindon and Heathrow Airport.


Bristol, Bus & Coach Station Departs 08:10
University of the West of England Departs: 08:20
Swindon, Freshbrook Departs: 09:00
SWINDON Departs: 09:25
Swindon, Queen's Drive, Elizabeth Hs Departs: 09:33
Swindon, Coate Water Departs: 09:35
HEATHROW AIRPORT LONDON (for T1, T2, T3) Departs: 10:55
London Earl's Court Departs: 11:35
Arrive LONDON (Victoria Coach Station) Arrives: 11:50

Don't think many people travelling from Bristol to London bother getting this one! More of a service for people in Bristol travelling to certain parts of Swindon, and Swindon to Heathrow Airport and London.

 

[Welshman]

Does anyone remember the chartrooms coaching companies used to have?

Remember? I worked in one!!

I only experienced them as a potential passenger.
Perhaps you would like to give some insight into the job from the inside.

 

[cambsy]

I can remember travelling in the era of 70 mph National Express, using leyland's, Plaxton and Vanhool etc, can remember the first Plaxton Express Liner's, no back window, and the next model of same name, and the Leyland's High liner's and Low liner's, and Vanhool and Duple from brand new, can remember some 80 mph plus off the clock runs when governor not working, on Van hool single deckers and Plaxton's, most speed probably done is 85-90 mph on over night on the Gatwick-London-Birmingham etc service, and London-Newcastle during day on M reg Vanhool single decker which due to blowing up gear box or clutch had governor taken out, made up 45 mins approx between Golders Green and Leeds, hitting the drivers said about 85 mph on M1 about mid day, another time was racing lorry in Plaxton, downhill at 80 mph plus , was certainly more fun in those days and a lot quicker.

Did London-Paignton,London Aberdeen,London-Glasgow, Birmingham-Glasgow, Glasgow-Gatwick over night, Birmingham-Gatwick, and many other routes, can remember the Norfolk flyer with National express, run by Ambassador Travel, on Leyland's and MCW double deckers London-Newmarket, and seeing the Scottish City link Cordon Bleu if spelt correctly, Armstrong Galley, plus others.

 

[notadriver]

I remember those days too cambsy? How is it fair that modern coaches are limited to 62 mph when trains can seemingly go as fast as they like ?

 

[freetoview33]

Then again some coach trips are faster than trains

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I remember those days too cambsy? How is it fair that modern coaches are limited to 62 mph when trains can seemingly go as fast as they like ?

Sadly, there were some accidents in the mid 1980s where speed was a significant factor. Where serious train accidents have occurred, the issue has been maintenance issues (e.g. Clapham Junction) rather than speed

 

[extendedpaul]

When my girlfriend and I were travelling around the country in the 1980s on National Express, using Mars tokens for 241 travel, I bought a postcard from each destination and made some notes on the back about the trip.

One tells me that a coach from Victoria at 08.30 on a Saturday reached Leeds almost 200 miles away at 11.30. That seems impossible, especially as I recall they all picked up at Golders Green but my notes are generally accurate. Could the journey really have been that fast ?

 

[notadriver]

When my girlfriend and I were travelling around the country in the 1980s on National Express, using Mars tokens for 241 travel, I bought a postcard from each destination and made some notes on the back about the trip.



One tells me that a coach from Victoria at 08.30 on a Saturday reached Leeds almost 200 miles away at 11.30. That seems impossible, especially as I recall they all picked up at Golders Green but my notes are generally accurate. Could the journey really have been that fast ?

I have similar childhood memories of returning from Cardiff to London in around 2.5 hours. I was sat behind the driver and the tachograph was faulty so no speedo. But on a Volvo B10M they were geared to do 70 mph at 2000 rpm and the rev counter was showing 2200-2300 rpm so I reckon we were doing 80 mph plus a lot of the way.

 

[quarella]

My postings of the 1982 Rapide timetable at the beginning of this thread show services that had 3h39 Victoria to Leeds and 2h40 to Cardiff.

 

[Martin2012]

What was the last service that operated without an onboard toilet ? I recall some pretty lengthy journies on Leyland Leopard Plaxton Panoramas without one.

Not sure if this counts but I remember several instances between 2004 and 2007 where South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach operated NX duplicate services using vehicles without onboard toilets. I seem to remember them being plaxton Excalibur coaches that had been acquired from Eastville Coaches.

I also remember one journey between London and Bristol in March 2005 which was being worked by a London based operator called TWH travel and the vehicle being used didn't have a toilet on board. At this time, this company worked the same journey every weekend and I can only assume that on this particular day they were short of vehicles.

 

[freetoview33]

Just wondering if anyone knows the minimum time in between a service terminating and it setting off again on a return trip. I have been look at the 40 (London - Bristol Shuttle) and with some services it is clear that a coach has about 15 mins before heading back. But on some evening trips the time between one service arriving and the next departing is 5 mins and just wondered if these would be operated by the same coach or by different ones.

 

[Statto]

Just wondering if anyone knows the minimum time in between a service terminating and it setting off again on a return trip. I have been look at the 40 (London - Bristol Shuttle) and with some services it is clear that a coach has about 15 mins before heading back. But on some evening trips the time between one service arriving and the next departing is 5 mins and just wondered if these would be operated by the same coach or by different ones.

Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds shuttle one am peak journey has a 5 minute turn around, most have 20 minute turn around.